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Edit: got fuel now but no spark! help!

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  • dougie30
    replied
    Originally posted by jlevie View Post
    Continuity between 47/48 will occur whether the CPS or CylID connectors are swapped. Or in the case of a short in the sensor or engine harness wiring.

    The trouble shooting guide I posted says:

    2) Check the resistance across DME 47 & 48, which should be 500-560 ohms. If
    the CPS is dismounted, the resistance can be seen to change from about 500 to
    540-560 ohms when a ferrous object is brought to the face of the
    sensor. Neither pin should be grounded.

    I thought that was pretty clear and if followed exactly will tell if the CPS signal can reach the DME. It won't necessarily tell you if the CPS is good. For that you have to look at the signal with an oscilloscope while cranking.
    Yep you where right. I checked continuity and it was good, then I checked resistance and nothing... So my cps has resistance but my pin 47-48 don't so there is my problem so I switched the plugs for cps and reference sensor ( for the fifth time) still nothing...

    So I'm checking what pins for continuity from DME to the plug and one was pin 31, looked it up and it had something to do with the throttle... So I was like uhhh what? Then it clicked, I had the throttle plug, cups and the one from the spark plug wires all mixed together 3 ways.

    Switches all 3 and the car fired right up.

    Everyone says " check if the cps plug and reference plug are mixed up" but there are 3 plugs to always double check because the one on the throttle position sensor is the exact same as the other 2.

    I knew it would be something little.. Thanks for the help guys I really appreciate it :up:

    Leave a comment:


  • jlevie
    replied
    Originally posted by dougie30 View Post
    lol i thought you where supposed to check with a magnet? damn well ill check with plane steel now.. but i do have continuity between 47 and 48
    Continuity between 47/48 will occur whether the CPS or CylID connectors are swapped. Or in the case of a short in the sensor or engine harness wiring.

    The trouble shooting guide I posted says:

    2) Check the resistance across DME 47 & 48, which should be 500-560 ohms. If
    the CPS is dismounted, the resistance can be seen to change from about 500 to
    540-560 ohms when a ferrous object is brought to the face of the
    sensor. Neither pin should be grounded.

    I thought that was pretty clear and if followed exactly will tell if the CPS signal can reach the DME. It won't necessarily tell you if the CPS is good. For that you have to look at the signal with an oscilloscope while cranking.
    Last edited by jlevie; 05-03-2013, 06:34 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dougie30
    replied
    Originally posted by jlevie View Post
    I have no idea what would happen if you test with a magnet. Test with a plain piece of iron/steel. And when doing the test use DME pins 47/48.
    lol i thought you where supposed to check with a magnet? damn well ill check with plane steel now.. but i do have continuity between 47 and 48

    Leave a comment:


  • jlevie
    replied
    Originally posted by dougie30 View Post
    checked a few more things today. my cps i pulled off and tested with a magnet to see if it still worked, the ohms jumpped from like 350~to750~ so im assuming it is reading data but now that i pulled it off the aluminum bracket holding it on stripped so now i need a new one of those.

    i also checked for the continuity of my pins after i checked my cps and pin 47 and 48 now have continuity. so im back to square one again.
    I have no idea what would happen if you test with a magnet. Test with a plain piece of iron/steel. And when doing the test use DME pins 47/48.

    Leave a comment:


  • dougie30
    replied
    yes i swapped in a 87 325 i engine in to my 86 325e.

    i was checking power to the dme pins and found out i have no power to pin 37 coming from main relay.

    any reasons why this might be?

    i tried a different relay still same thing. and yes i checked my cps about 38649864873 times.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chriskbmx
    replied
    my question is, is this a swap car? im assuming you went from an e car to an i motor? i assume this because the transmission you are using is from an e car. please clarify.

    Leave a comment:


  • dougie30
    replied
    checked a few more things today. my cps i pulled off and tested with a magnet to see if it still worked, the ohms jumpped from like 350~to750~ so im assuming it is reading data but now that i pulled it off the aluminum bracket holding it on stripped so now i need a new one of those.

    i also checked for the continuity of my pins after i checked my cps and pin 47 and 48 now have continuity. so im back to square one again.

    any more info would be great.

    Leave a comment:


  • dougie30
    replied
    ok the step im stuck on in the resistance between pin 47 and 48 what could be causing this?

    Leave a comment:


  • jlevie
    replied
    I doesn't sound like you are using the diagnostic list the right way. Follow the trouble shooting steps one at a time. If you don't get the right results on a step you can't move on until that has been resolved.

    Leave a comment:


  • dougie30
    replied
    Moar info!

    OK so I jumped my fuel relay and fuel shot out of the line.. So my pumps do work!

    Buttt now I have no spark. It has to do with the coil. I checked continuity between the ppower and ground to the pins #1 and #2 on the ecu pins.

    Now this is where it gets weird. The power is coming from the " ground" wire and the usual power wire... And now there is no ground? So in turn no spark. I checked this like 5 times and idk why it is doing this. I have continuity from both to my ecu pins so now I'm stumped.

    Also there is no resistance from pin 47-48? What does this mean?

    Anyone feel free to give me some ideas
    Last edited by dougie30; 05-01-2013, 02:09 PM.

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  • dougie30
    replied
    Well my car did sit for 8 months so would it be likely that the pump would go bad? And would it make any noise?

    edit: ecu and icv both have power because icv vibrates and euc makes noise but fuel pumps are quite.

    how can i test them before i go out and buy new ones???
    Last edited by dougie30; 04-29-2013, 08:41 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr.vang
    replied
    If it has spark most likely the cps is good. I bet your external pump is bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • dougie30
    replied
    More info and bump because Im desperate!

    OK broke out the volt meter again and started checking my dme plug, here is what I found with key on:
    #13
    #18 are the only two with power.

    #19
    #14
    #2
    #24
    #52
    #55 all are grounded

    Also found out #11 fuse is grounded? Though it was supposed to have power for the fuel pump?

    Please give me some info!!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • dougie30
    replied
    OK I have more info.

    I only have power to pin 18,13 and very weak signal on pin 24 on DME plug. I have full power to all fuses and relays. I do have spark to coil. I don't have continuity to pin 1.

    so im getting full power then stops at the dme side of my harness, except the pins i said above.


    Also here are some pics of a few plugs I don't know where they go. The two little female ones are right near the fuse box the others are right near DME plug

    Also checked the cps has 545 omes. And fuse 11 has no power.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by dougie30; 04-28-2013, 06:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • jlevie
    replied
    The fuel pump only runs when the DME sees timing data from a rotating engine. So the first tasks are to ensure that the DME is running and that timing data from the CPS reaches the DME. Work through what follows.


    For the engine to run the following conditions must be met:

    Power on DME pins:
    27 Start Input
    18 Un-switched Power input
    37 Power Input from Main Relay

    Ground on DME pins 2, 14, 19, 24

    Timing data from the CPS on DME pins 47 & 48 from a rotating engine

    To have spark power must be present at the coil positive and ground pulses
    from the DME's pin 1 must reach the coil negative. Power to the coil is
    controlled by the ignition switch via C101. When checking for spark, use the
    output lead from the coil to eliminate the distributor, rotor and plug wires.

    To have injector firing power must be present at each injector and ground
    pulses from the DME's pin 16 (Bank1) and pin 17 (Bank2) must reach the
    respective injector bank. Note that the injectors are wired as two banks of
    three. With cylinder 1,3,5 being bank 1 and 2,4,6 being bank 2. Power to the
    injectors is controlled by the main relay. Injector firing is best checked
    with a noid light.

    The fuel pump relay must have power on pin 86 (relay coil) from the main relay
    output (pin 87) and power on pin 30. The DME will ground pin 85 to turn on the
    relay and power the pump(s) via pin 87. Of the above, only the fuel pump power
    is fused. So if the there's power at pin 87, but not at the pump, check fuse
    11.

    The main relay and DME pin 18 receive power from the smaller of the two wires
    that connect to the battery's positive terminal. That wire incorporates an
    in-line fuse. When the DME is presented with a start signal, it grounds the
    main relay pin 85 and furnishes power to the fuel pump relay, injectors, and
    DME.

    Troubleshooting:

    Disconnect the battery and the DME cable. Then:

    1) Disconnect the coil negative and check continuity from that connector to
    DME pin 1. Also verify that from DME pin 1 to ground is an open circuit.

    2) Check the resistance across DME 47 & 48, which should be 500-560 ohms. If
    the CPS is dismounted, the resistance can be seen to change from about 500 to
    540-560 ohms when a ferrous object is brought to the face of the
    sensor. Neither pin should be grounded.

    3) Check for continuity from DME 36 to main relay 85 and from DME 3 to fuel
    pump relay 85.

    Reconnect the coil, remount the CPS (air gap should be 1mm), plug the
    relays back in, reconnect the DME, and connect the battery. Then do the
    following checks:

    1) With the key off, verify that power is present at DME pin 18 and main relay
    86 & 30.

    2) With the key on, verify that power is present at DME pin 27 and pin
    18. Power to pin 18 is from the main relay and there should be power to the
    injectors and fuel pump relay.

    3) With the key on, verify that no voltage is present at the DME grounds (2,
    14, 19, 24).

    4) Verify that power is present at the coil positive and at fuel pump relay
    pin 30. Those get switched power from the ignition switch via C101.

    The engine will start and run (if poorly) with only those connections to the
    DME in place. The other signals from Cylinder ID, AFM, temp sensor, etc., are
    necessary for proper operation. But they won't prevent the engine from firing.

    IMPORTANT:

    A power check means seeing a voltage within about a tenth of a volt of what
    you measure across the battery terminals, which should be at least 12.6v on a
    charged battery.

    A continuity check means seeing less that 1 ohm of resistance.

    An open circuit means seeing a resistance of at least 100k ohms.

    A good quality auto-ranging digital multimeter will make these tests much
    easier.

    Leave a comment:

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