Replaced Head Gasket - Still Leaking!

[Sean_Cassidy]

Hello all, so I replaced the timing belt, water pump, tensioner and head gasket along with other things like the valve stem seals etc. I had the head resurfaced as I should have and put everything back together. Basically I fired it up today for the first time and there are some problems that weren't there before.

There is an obvious leaking of oil coming from cylinder 1 (or the cylinder closest to the camshaft pulley, I'm not sure if I have that right) and possibly in other areas - I've yet to diagnose it entirely, and there is smoke coming from the exhaust manifold/spark plug area that seems to have this dusty smell. Not only that but when I rev the engine, upon dropping down, the rpms reach around 500 and the engine seems to almost die.

I'm at witts end and I have no idea why any of this may be happening. Could it be that the bolts I used (which are Victor Reinz or VR) are bad? One of these bolts was slightly bent I saw, but I put it in anyways as it didn't need a whole lot of persuasion with the torque wrench.

Any and all help is so greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Sean

[Ether-D]

A similar thing happened to me. Head off and resurfaced, new bolts and gasket. All new seals. Then fired her up and she's seeping oil near the very front of the engine. It is important that you chase the head bolt threads before you reinstall new bolts. I didn't. Mine is leaking oil, but it runs like a scalded dog.

[Sean_Cassidy]

What do you mean "chase the headbolt threads"?

[Andy.B]

Before this turns into a "VR head gaskets suck"-fest, I will try and offer a few alternative ideas...

You followed the proper torque sequence with a known accurate torque wrench right? The head was surfaced to spec by a reputable shop? The gaskets themselves were in good condition when assembling the motor?

Oil leak - Was the block surface clean and smooth? Any debris could contribute towards a leak.


Smoke - if it has been run only a few minutes, then give the smoke some time to burn off... residual cleaning chemicals, spilled oil, and new gaskets can all take some time to burn off when the engine runs the first few times. As long as the car doesn't overheat, and isn't leaking so much its starving for oil, it might just need to run for a bit. If the smoke persists, then check for leaks. I would check to be sure the spark plugs and manifold nuts are torqued properly.

Idle issue - check the engine timing and check for vacuum leaks. Disconnect battery to reset ECU.

You might also want to check the compression, and make sure the oil leak is your only leak.

Alternatively, it could just be that VR gaskets suck, and thats the cause of your problems. I have used VR products for years as a mechanic without issue, however, so I don't really buy in to all the hate.

[Andy.B]

What do you mean "chase the headbolt threads"?

Damaged threads, debris at the bottom of the bolt hole, or even oil/cleaner/coolant that can 'hydro lock' can cause the bolt to bottom out or bind BEFORE it is effectively clamping the head down...
Rather than the head of the bolt seating on the washer, and the threads stretching away from the head as you tighten it down (TTY), the bolt threads stop spinning down, and you end up just twisting the bolt without generating appropriate clamping force.

[Sean_Cassidy]

The head gasket wasn't a VR product, it was Elring. Only VR products used were the bolts.

The block surface was clean. I didn't have it grinded down or anything because I didn't want to make any kind of scratches but I used brake cleaner and a cloth to remove any kind of light oil residue built up from the old head gasket.

I used an "auto craft" torque wrench from an advance auto store nearby. I thought it would do the job fine.

The smoke might be from coolant or other things, sure. It would make sense and I may have to go back and torque the manifold nuts again.

Unfortunately, my trunk is broken and does not open as my dumb ass brother broke the wrong key in trying to get it open a few weeks ago, however the battery was fully dead before I tried to start it again - hopefully that would restart the battery (?)

Is there a way to check engine timing without taking everything apart?

Thanks a lot man.

[AndrewBird]

What did you torque the bolts to? Did you do the 90º and 90º again that is required?

Tightening the bolts farther won't do anything as they are stretch bolts. Once they start to stretch, they won't provide any more clamping force. Unless you didn't torque them down properly the first time, it won't do any good.

[Andy.B]

What did you torque the bolts to? Did you do the 90º and 90º again that is required?

Tightening the bolts farther won't do anything as they are stretch bolts. Once they start to stretch, they won't provide any more clamping force. Unless you didn't torque them down properly the first time, it won't do any good.

While you are correct, I hope he was referring to checking the torque on the manifold bolts.

[Sean_Cassidy]

Yes, I am talking about the exhaust manifold bolts of course. I torqued the head bolts down to 22lbs/ft. following what was written on this website: http://www.rtsauto.com/the-art-of-bolt-tightening/ My car is a 1990 so they're torx head bolts.

I did in fact do the additional 90 degrees twice (180*) per bolt after torquing all of them down to spec.

I noticed the oil is leaking right around the "tab" part of the head gasket that is exposed near the front of the engine right where near the corner. It's really only that part, everything else doesn't seem to leak. Could it be that the engine needs to warm up and let the gasket perhaps 'sit' a little firmer. I haven't let the car run for more than 3 mins at a time and I still need to do a proper filling and bleeding of the cooling system.

Thanks again for input guys, I appreciate it.

[korky]

Torque for those bolts is as described in the bentley. 30nm, 90, 90.

Just here to say that I've had my share of bad experience with Elring. I'm starting to suspect the quality of their components: I replaced head gasket, valve stem seals, and all of the intake/exhaust gaskets. The torx bolts came along. And some other shit. It was a full package of gaskets basically.

Fired up, ran flawlessly, except that soon after oil started to go into the cylinders, which had never happened before. Huge blue smoke out the back and I was up to 1L oil / 130 miles.

Currently taking off everything again to get it replaced by genuine BMW parts. Which are not all that more expensive, at least here in Europe.

Good luck mate.

[Sean_Cassidy]

Torque for those bolts is as described in the bentley. 30nm, 90, 90.

Just here to say that I've had my share of bad experience with Elring. I'm starting to suspect the quality of their components: I replaced head gasket, valve stem seals, and all of the intake/exhaust gaskets. The torx bolts came along. And some other shit. It was a full package of gaskets basically.

Fired up, ran flawlessly, except that soon after oil started to go into the cylinders, which had never happened before. Huge blue smoke out the back and I was up to 1L oil / 130 miles.

Currently taking off everything again to get it replaced by genuine BMW parts. Which are not all that more expensive, at least here in Europe.

Good luck mate.

Hmm yeah, considering I just put everything back together last night it sucks to hear that it could be a problem with the part. Thanks for the input though man.

Can anybody confirm that it is indeed 30lbs/ft. torque? I haven't seen that written elsewhere (not to call you a liar haha).

[Cabriolet]

No, 22ft/lb. then 90 degrees, then wait 30 minutes, then another 90 degrees.

but the block MUST be fully chased and threads perfect. otherwise you could end up with a wrong reading.

[Sean_Cassidy]

No, 22ft/lb. then 90 degrees, then wait 30 minutes, then another 90 degrees.

but the block MUST be fully chased and threads perfect. otherwise you could end up with a wrong reading.

Ok that's what I had thought. I didn't wait 30 minutes in between, nor did I think to clean the threads. I also found that you're supposed to lube them with oil before going ahead and torquing them down which I didn't do either.

MY MAIN QUESTION IS THIS: Could oil literally oozing out of the side of the engine where I described when running be caused by a poor mounting of the head gasket, the head gasket itself, or that perhaps the bolt wasn't torqued down correctly?

[Cabriolet]

Could oil literally oozing out of the side of the engine where I described when running be caused by a poor mounting of the head gasket, the head gasket itself, or that perhaps the bolt wasn't torqued down correctly?

yes. and yes from bad headgasket and yes from improper torquing.
my first 325es VR hg and bolts no issue. second car. leaked oil moments after first start. something i know never leaks. ARP studs and BMW oem headgasket. it's also way overkill.

i would tighten your bolts 30 degrees. and see if that hold for a while. it wont stop the leak but may lessen it.

[Sean_Cassidy]

yes. and yes from bad headgasket and yes from improper torquing.
my first 325es VR hg and bolts no issue. second car. leaked oil moments after first start. something i know never leaks. ARP studs and BMW oem headgasket. it's also way overkill.

i would tighten your bolts 30 degrees. and see if that hold for a while. it wont stop the leak but may lessen it.

Okay thanks. I found someone locally who is selling some bolts for the head. Assuming they're all straight and have no curves or bends like my last set did, I think I might go ahead and replace the bolts or at least the one that was bent.

I have a hunch that that might be where my problem lies.

Any other suggestions? Do any you guys think I should just replace the head gasket all together with the bolts?