Replaced Head Gasket - Still Leaking!

[Sean_Cassidy]

One thing you can do when you put it together again is to be a bit conservative with your angle turn. by that I mean, give it an extra 5-10* turn.

TTY is nice because when you reach the proper torque angle, you hit a plateau on the stress/strain curve, where the clamping force stays the same even though you're stretching the bolt further. they are sufficiently designed so at the 90/90 angle, you aren't actually close to breaking the bolts.

so if you did 95/95 or 100/100, that would ensure you'd reach the yield point of the bolts and maximum clamping force.

YMMV and you're free to ignore the above :p

Haha, good to know man. I'll keep that in mind for sure.

Thanks!

[korky]

Btw the torque and angles for tightening the head bolts were indicated on some sheet inside the package they came in. Should be in yours too.

Anyhow, they were the same as in the Bentley. 30nm, 90°, 90°. No waiting time or warming up required since they're torx.

[nando]

One thing you can do when you put it together again is to be a bit conservative with your angle turn. by that I mean, give it an extra 5-10* turn.

TTY is nice because when you reach the proper torque angle, you hit a plateau on the stress/strain curve, where the clamping force stays the same even though you're stretching the bolt further. they are sufficiently designed so at the 90/90 angle, you aren't actually close to breaking the bolts.

so if you did 95/95 or 100/100, that would ensure you'd reach the yield point of the bolts and maximum clamping force.

YMMV and you're free to ignore the above :p

[Sean_Cassidy]

It sounds to me like installation error.

Take it apart, and do it again. New gaskets, and head bolts are required. This time around follow the advice everyone in this thread has given you as far as proper installation steps, and chalk this one up as a learning experience.

I would also suggest that brake cleaner alone is not going to get everything off the mating surfaces. Go ahead and get the fine scotch brite pad, and scuff up the block a little bit this time around. Light scuffs actually assist the head gasket seating properly.

Haha, yeah, I guess it WILL have to be a learning experience. I'll go ahead and follow the advice given. Can't thank all of you enough for helping to guide me through this. I'm ordering a head gasket in a few minutes.

I will absolutely update this thread to let everyone know what happens.

Thanks again!

[nando]

Dammit, the head gasket was brand new or at least I thought so. I got it with the purchase of this e30. I picked up another set of bolts so I guess I may as well.

What is the deal with the head gasket that once it leaks it will always leak? couldn't I just take off the head re-seat it, clean it off, etc and then put new bolts in? Also could turning the bolts a little more to see if that stops or slows the leak damage my engine in any way?

The gasket compresses when you tighten the head down. once it's compressed, you can't use it again.

replace the gasket.

[nyChris]

It sounds to me like installation error.

Take it apart, and do it again. New gaskets, and head bolts are required. This time around follow the advice everyone in this thread has given you as far as proper installation steps, and chalk this one up as a learning experience.

I would also suggest that brake cleaner alone is not going to get everything off the mating surfaces. Go ahead and get the fine scotch brite pad, and scuff up the block a little bit this time around. Light scuffs actually assist the head gasket seating properly.

[Sean_Cassidy]

learned this from the Porsche guys. letting the bolt rest and building the engine in sub 40F temps gives better seals.

also bentley's mentions it for the older bolt type. this is how i build my engines now.


yup. once it's leaked, it will always leak. but i only mentioned tightening them to give him some buffer time until he has time to fix it later.

Dammit, the head gasket was brand new or at least I thought so. I got it with the purchase of this e30. I picked up another set of bolts so I guess I may as well.

What is the deal with the head gasket that once it leaks it will always leak? couldn't I just take off the head re-seat it, clean it off, etc and then put new bolts in? Also could turning the bolts a little more to see if that stops or slows the leak damage my engine in any way?

[nando]

TTY bolts don't need a "wait time". nothing is going to happen between when you do the first 90 degree angle and 30 minutes later.

TTY bolts are used everywhere, not just in automotive. you won't ever hear of such a thing as waiting x amount of time between the initial turn and the final turn..

[Cabriolet]

you don't need to wait 30 minutes.

learned this from the Porsche guys. letting the bolt rest and building the engine in sub 40F temps gives better seals.

also bentley's mentions it for the older bolt type. this is how i build my engines now.

given the seal is already done, you should replace the gasket.

yup. once it's leaked, it will always leak. but i only mentioned tightening them to give him some buffer time until he has time to fix it later.

[nando]

Okay thanks. I found someone locally who is selling some bolts for the head. Assuming they're all straight and have no curves or bends like my last set did, I think I might go ahead and replace the bolts or at least the one that was bent.

I have a hunch that that might be where my problem lies.

Any other suggestions? Do any you guys think I should just replace the head gasket all together with the bolts?

given the seal is already done, you should replace the gasket.

[nando]

No, 22ft/lb. then 90 degrees, then wait 30 minutes, then another 90 degrees.

but the block MUST be fully chased and threads perfect. otherwise you could end up with a wrong reading.

you don't need to wait 30 minutes.

[Sean_Cassidy]

So what's your hunch?

One of my biggest frustrations is when there's a thread and the OP doesn't post when he finds out he made a mistake. If you think there's something other than the typical "bad parts" reason behind your issue then just say it. I know a good percentage of the issues we hear about on r3v are caused by the easiest-to-overlook people-related issues.

My hunch is clearly stated in my last posting. That perhaps the previously mentioned bent bolt that I installed may have something to do with it. I haven't torn into it yet, but will tomorrow at which point I'll let people know what I found.

Easy tiger.

[SkiFree]

I have a hunch that that might be where my problem lies.

So what's your hunch?

One of my biggest frustrations is when there's a thread and the OP doesn't post when he finds out he made a mistake. If you think there's something other than the typical "bad parts" reason behind your issue then just say it. I know a good percentage of the issues we hear about on r3v are caused by the easiest-to-overlook people-related issues.

[Sean_Cassidy]

yes. and yes from bad headgasket and yes from improper torquing.
my first 325es VR hg and bolts no issue. second car. leaked oil moments after first start. something i know never leaks. ARP studs and BMW oem headgasket. it's also way overkill.

i would tighten your bolts 30 degrees. and see if that hold for a while. it wont stop the leak but may lessen it.

Okay thanks. I found someone locally who is selling some bolts for the head. Assuming they're all straight and have no curves or bends like my last set did, I think I might go ahead and replace the bolts or at least the one that was bent.

I have a hunch that that might be where my problem lies.

Any other suggestions? Do any you guys think I should just replace the head gasket all together with the bolts?

[Cabriolet]

Could oil literally oozing out of the side of the engine where I described when running be caused by a poor mounting of the head gasket, the head gasket itself, or that perhaps the bolt wasn't torqued down correctly?

yes. and yes from bad headgasket and yes from improper torquing.
my first 325es VR hg and bolts no issue. second car. leaked oil moments after first start. something i know never leaks. ARP studs and BMW oem headgasket. it's also way overkill.

i would tighten your bolts 30 degrees. and see if that hold for a while. it wont stop the leak but may lessen it.