Help me diagnose an intermittent bucking/CEL problem

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  • kwseattle
    Advanced Member
    • Nov 2013
    • 105

    #1

    Help me diagnose an intermittent bucking/CEL problem

    Sorry about the incoming wall of text:

    So when I first bought my car in December it would occasionally buck/misfire when on the throttle getting on the freeway or going up a hill, etc. Now it's progressed to about every day when I drive it there's at least one stutter, one bucking event, etc., and it's also been stalling at idle. It also has the occasional long start, taking about 5-6 seconds to fire while stumbling to life.

    Last weekend I was about to head north to school (about 80 miles) and when I pulled out of my parents driveway it immediately started bucking every time I hit about 2000 RPM. I had to turn around at the end of the block and pull right back in their driveway. Here is a video while in neutral, foot steady on the throttle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVg0sM1wjQg. You can't see in the video, but every time it happened the CEL would blink on and then shut off. After shutting it down the check engine light came on and the stomp test proved itself useless by just flashing constantly and not displaying any codes. I checked the spark plug wires and pulled them off/put them on several times to make sure there was connection, and then the problem repeated itself only at 4000 RPM instead.

    The next morning my dad and I checked the throttle position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor, both seemed to be within spec as per the TPS Pelican Technical Article and the Bentley manual. I ended up replacing the fuel pump relay just to see if that would have any effect. Car started and drove normal, no problems all the way back to my house 80 miles north.

    Last week it has been bucking/stuttering at idle quite often, about once per day. Long starts are still happening. It will often stumble when idling and the check engine light will come on for a few seconds, then go out. It falls suddenly to about 400 RPM then jumps to like 1300, then falls back to a normalish idle.

    Yesterday I replaced the throttle position sensor only to find the one I'd gotten was faulty, so I put my old one back on (seemed to be working fine) and discovered that my friend and I had created a vacuum leak in the process. We also unplugged/replugged every sensor multiple times to make sure that electrical contact was being established and there wasn't any corrosion on the terminals. It started and drove home fine though, but it hated quick throttle input and idled high due to the vacuum leak.


    I need some input. Could it be the AFM? ECU? The ECU has a chip but I have no clue what kind. I have access to both a working spare ECU and even a MAF conversion if I so chose to try that.

    I'm running out of ideas. Oh and I forgot to mention that it also runs rich. Has been since I bought it.
    Last edited by kwseattle; 03-30-2014, 11:09 AM.

    Alpinweiss II 88 325is | M20 | 5 Lug Conversion
    --
    Kyle
  • FLG
    No R3VLimiter
    • Sep 2011
    • 3165

    #2
    Looks like your typical CPS issue, DME looses timing data, tach cuts, then catches.

    Unplug the CPS sensor (wire near intake by round connector) there are identical plugs so make sure you remove the correct one, the other is the spark inpluse sensor. Check the resistance on the middle and outside pin (think pin 1-2, but middle and one of the outside ones will read infinite the other will read resistance) the resistance should be somewhere around 540 ohms + or - 10% or so.
    -Build http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=295277

    Comment

    • kwseattle
      Advanced Member
      • Nov 2013
      • 105

      #3
      Originally posted by FLG
      Looks like your typical CPS issue, DME looses timing data, tach cuts, then catches.

      Unplug the CPS sensor (wire near intake by round connector) there are identical plugs so make sure you remove the correct one, the other is the spark inpluse sensor. Check the resistance on the middle and outside pin (think pin 1-2, but middle and one of the outside ones will read infinite the other will read resistance) the resistance should be somewhere around 540 ohms + or - 10% or so.
      I've actually tested it, it was really close to 540 ohms between the outside and middle pins.

      I can still replace it if necessary, they aren't terribly expensive.

      I think I've read somewhere that if the MPG gauge moves when it happens it could be fuel related, could this be the case?

      OH and it runs rich. Maybe the AFM isn't working correctly, too much fuel? Would the AFM also cause stutters and idle issues? MY ICV is also functioning properly, I believe.

      Alpinweiss II 88 325is | M20 | 5 Lug Conversion
      --
      Kyle

      Comment

      • FLG
        No R3VLimiter
        • Sep 2011
        • 3165

        #4
        The tach drop out and mpg moving is DME/CPS/Wiring related.

        Just because it reads properly dosnt mean its working right, but its a good sign it ohmed correctly.

        Could also be DME losing power, last time i had this issue i hooked up LED's to pins 18 Un-switched Power input, 37 Power Input from Main Relay on the DME to see it they would turn off when it happened, they didnt. Turned out to be some corrosion on my c101 connector near the fuse box.

        Clean the connector off, remove the rubber boots and look for any shorted wires then go from there.
        -Build http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=295277

        Comment

        • jlevie
          R3V OG
          • Nov 2006
          • 13530

          #5
          I agree with the cause being a loss of timing data to the DME. Just because a CPS ohms out, that doesn't mean that it works properly. Replace the CPS with a new OE part to start. If that doesn't help, replace the DME. If neither of those help, replace the engine wiring harness.
          The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
          Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

          Comment

          • kwseattle
            Advanced Member
            • Nov 2013
            • 105

            #6
            Originally posted by jlevie
            I agree with the cause being a loss of timing data to the DME. Just because a CPS ohms out, that doesn't mean that it works properly. Replace the CPS with a new OE part to start. If that doesn't help, replace the DME. If neither of those help, replace the engine wiring harness.
            Thanks for the tips. Yeah I'll try another DME and check the wiring, and another CPS once I can get my hands on one.

            Alpinweiss II 88 325is | M20 | 5 Lug Conversion
            --
            Kyle

            Comment

            • FLG
              No R3VLimiter
              • Sep 2011
              • 3165

              #7
              Just make sure its an OEM cps, not aftermarket junk.
              -Build http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=295277

              Comment

              • kwseattle
                Advanced Member
                • Nov 2013
                • 105

                #8
                Originally posted by FLG
                Just make sure its an OEM cps, not aftermarket junk.
                Yep, only the best.

                Alpinweiss II 88 325is | M20 | 5 Lug Conversion
                --
                Kyle

                Comment

                • hasback
                  Advanced Member
                  • Aug 2013
                  • 111

                  #9
                  is there any easy way to replace that without pulling all the hoses, belts,radiator ect, that what the Bentley seems to want you to do. i have the same problem as well.

                  Comment

                  • FLG
                    No R3VLimiter
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 3165

                    #10
                    Replacing the cps sensor is as simple as unplugging it and removing the bolt holding it onto the front of the engine. Allen head, not sure what size. Make sure you route the new one properly, if care is not taken it can easily be chewed up by the fan pulley.

                    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
                    -Build http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=295277

                    Comment

                    • E30-325iS
                      Advanced Member
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 191

                      #11
                      When ordering the CPS get new clips to hold the cable as it runs past the front of the engine, as they wil probably crack when you remove them.
                      Number 14 and 15 in this diagram.
                      http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...11&fg=10&hl=84

                      Comment

                      • FLG
                        No R3VLimiter
                        • Sep 2011
                        • 3165

                        #12
                        Originally posted by E30-325iS
                        When ordering the CPS get new clips to hold the cable as it runs past the front of the engine, as they wil probably crack when you remove them.
                        Number 14 and 15 in this diagram.
                        http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...11&fg=10&hl=84
                        Honestly I avoid mounting it that way. I go up and over the thermostat instead.

                        Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
                        -Build http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=295277

                        Comment

                        • dnguyen1963
                          R3VLimited
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 2648

                          #13
                          Did you take care of the vacuum leaks? Your car will drive like a wild mustang if you have large intermittent leaks.

                          Comment

                          • hasback
                            Advanced Member
                            • Aug 2013
                            • 111

                            #14
                            okay see in knew id have to take all the hoses, fan and what ever else to re route. so to me it sounds like the easier way is to cut/pull the old sensor out and then re run the new one over top of the motor?

                            Comment

                            • jlevie
                              R3V OG
                              • Nov 2006
                              • 13530

                              #15
                              The alternator belt, fan, and water pump pulley are all that have to come off to route the CPS the way it should be. Do, as E30-325IS suggested, have a new chase and clips on hand.
                              The car makes it possible, but the driver makes it happen.
                              Jim Levie, Huntsville, AL

                              Comment

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