Just did timing belt, 3 questions

[Wh33lhop]

1. The engine wouldn't hold at TDC (even after I pulled the plugs) so I wound up marking the cam gear when there was no resistance and not moving either gear. The only thing I could think is that the valve springs are so tight (double valve springs on the b25 amirite?) that they were applying torque to the cam gear. We are talking serious torque too, took a lot of muscle with an 18" breaker bar to get it to TDC and keep it there. Has anyone else had this problem and how did they get around it? It felt as if something got caught in the belt somewhere but when I opened up the cover I found nothing, and after I replaced the belt it exhibited the same behavior.

2. I didn't replace the cam seals. How important is this and how is it done? I assume the hex "key" has to be turned to take off the distributor rotor attachment (whatever it's called) and the cam seals are on a fitting behind the cam gear?

3. There's a bolt hole right next to the dizzy cap, just underneath it and to the right (looking from the front of the car). The car isn't fully back together yet and I can't figure out what the hell it's for. Can anyone enlighten me?

[Wh33lhop]

Seriously? No responses? Seriously.

[jmr302]

I did my belt 2 years ago. Here are some thoughts/answers.

1) So the cam gear wouldn't stay put? I remember mine being touchy. If the valvesprings are old that's probably not it. I'd say the rockers and lobes are just worn really smooth. Maybe a few of the valvesprings are fatigued so there's more pressure on some lobes than others. I suppose if you don't move the crank or cam independently then you could change the belt in any position. But the fact that you had to use an 18" breaker bar makes me think the engine was mis-timed and you were forcing a valve into a piston. Now that the belt is on, can you turn the engine over by hand fairly easily? And when you do are you able to line up the crank/cam gear marks? Double check both of these things before going any further.

Unfortunately I don't remember the answers to questions 2 & 3 since it's been 2 years. I didn't change the cam seals on mine because I was lazy and planned on rebuilding the engine sometime soon. I just didn't want the belt to snap in the meantime.

[StereoInstaller1]

I am assuming you used the harmonic balancer to time your cam?

If so, DON'T!

Use the mark that matches the notch around the crank itself. If you had to fight that hard to get it right, something is wrong.

And yeah, do the cam seal and the o-ring on the cam seal housing.

Luke

[black88is]

I am assuming you used the harmonic balancer to time your cam?

If so, DON'T!

Use the mark that matches the notch around the crank itself. If you had to fight that hard to get it right, something is wrong.

And yeah, do the cam seal and the o-ring on the cam seal housing.

Luke

what he said TIMING SHOULD BE DONE WITH BELT ON OR ROCKERS OFF

[cobraken]

Well I just finished my timing belt for the second time and the damn thing slight whine like a bad power steering pump. I thought it might have been to tight or to loose so i rechecked it and the same sound is there. I dont get it.

[xcmorgan50]

When i did my timing belt, i didn't worry about TDC or anything like that. What i did was mark exactly where the gears were with a marker and slid the belt directly off making sure none of the gears moved. then i slid on the new one. It seemed to work for me. Does anyone have any rejections to this method? I replaced the water pump and tensioner pulley while i was at it and i havent had a problem yet and its been 15,000 miles.

[Wh33lhop]

So, turns out I jumped the gun and the car was in gear. :nice: Score one for simple explanations.

I didn't rotate it with the harmonic balancer (more of a dampener really amirite?), I used the timing ring and the TDC marks lined up each time, just wouldn't stay there.

When doing the water pump, did anyone put the gasket on without any RTV/sealant? I wound up not using any (writeup never mentioned it) and later read the directions for the POS pump that my neighbor was going to put on his M20 which said to use some sealant (my OEM one had no instructions). I haven't noticed any leaks just double checking.

Changed the oil to 20W50 VR-1 and changed the plugs to autolite coppers from the platinums that were already in there. She runs pretty well now, will adjust valves soon, find the vacuum leak and then onto the brakes and suspension. :D Thanks for the responses.

[gtdragon980]

i didnt put any rtv on my water pump gasket, no leaks.

[jmr302]

So, turns out I jumped the gun and the car was in gear. :nice: Score one for simple explanations.

I didn't rotate it with the harmonic balancer (more of a dampener really amirite?), I used the timing ring and the TDC marks lined up each time, just wouldn't stay there.

When doing the water pump, did anyone put the gasket on without any RTV/sealant? I wound up not using any (writeup never mentioned it) and later read the directions for the POS pump that my neighbor was going to put on his M20 which said to use some sealant (my OEM one had no instructions). I haven't noticed any leaks just double checking.

Well that was an important discovery.

Regarding the RTV, if that leaks any time soon imagine how much work you'd have to redo. Hopefully you got lucky and everything will be fine. But in the future, don't skip the RTV because some dork's internet write-up doesn't mention it. He probably omitted it because it's standard practice.

[Wh33lhop]

Actually, there's a leak now and I'm pretty sure that's where it is. Lugging a jug of water downstairs with me each morning to fill up the coolant (I know tap water is bad to put in the coolant but it's like a gallon or two per day and coolant is expensive). Guess I gotta pull it all off, maybe I can get to the bolts without actually removing the timing belt/tensioner. Try and back out the bolts and pull the pump mostly off, let the area dry, apply silicone to both sides of gasket and retorque?

I'd say it wasn't a horrible job done considering I've never done work in the engine bay before (besides plugs and suspension). Live and learn. :)

[jmr302]

Actually, there's a leak now and I'm pretty sure that's where it is. Lugging a jug of water downstairs with me each morning to fill up the coolant (I know tap water is bad to put in the coolant but it's like a gallon or two per day and coolant is expensive). Guess I gotta pull it all off, maybe I can get to the bolts without actually removing the timing belt/tensioner. Try and back out the bolts and pull the pump mostly off, let the area dry, apply silicone to both sides of gasket and retorque?

I'd say it wasn't a horrible job done considering I've never done work in the engine bay before (besides plugs and suspension). Live and learn. :)

Well that's pretty good if you've never done this before. In my opinion, this is one of the harder timing belt jobs around with the engine still in the car and the hood & grill still in place. This job is a lot harder than your average Japanese FWD timing belt.

I suspect you'll end up taking everything back off to get to that pump. The timing belt tensioner is part of the pump so if you have to unbolt the pump the timing belt tension will be lost.

[Spinning Tires]

I'd get a new belt. Antifreeze eats away at the belt

[rThor432]

For what it's worth, I dont use RTV on those gaskets and I've never had one come back with leaks.

[MoparJ]

Before you installed the pump, did you get all of the old gasket material off of the mating surfaces? It's an important step for most cars, but I hear that it is imperative for these particular cars.

I just did my water pump, and it has been slowly dripping coolant from that general area since the job. It was sort of a rush job since I was missing work, and I distinctly remember not cleaning the gasket area before I put the new pump on, so I'm pretty sure that's why it's leaking. Not too worried about ripping everything apart again since I have to do the timing belt as soon as possible, anyway (it looked HORRIBLE).

As far as RTV, I just used a thin layer on the pump side to keep the gasket in place while I was putting it in.






Oh yeah, and that tensioner spring really sucks to reinstall when you can't see what you're doing.