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    M90 Engine Questions

    I have an M90 that I'm looking at purchasing, currently carbureted. I got some great info from a member here but still have some more questions that someone can hopefully help me with. This was the info I received from the member:

    The M90 is just slightly different from your standard M30, and is techincally still an M30. M90s were only offered in Europe (well, basically everywhere but the US) where they were used in the E12 M535i, E23 735i and E24 635CSi.The M90 designation means that it's the "L" block bottom end which is essentially the same as what the M88/3 and S38 motors used. They literally spawned from the M49 racing block used in the 3.0 and 3.5CSL race cars. It's got an 84mm stroke and a 93.355mm bore for a total of 3453cc vs 86mm and 92mm for a standard 3430cc M30. The cylinder head was the same as what the 3.2 and 3.4 used but M90s generally had a slightly hotter cam from the factory. They are more willing to rev than a long stroke M30 and somehow they feel quite a bit more powerful despite being rated at the same 218hp in European trim.

    Installing an M90 in an E30 is exactly the same as an other M30, so you will need mounts, a B34 pan and pump, and thats about it. You can run early or late Motronic on an M90 as long as you can source the correct parts from a donor. I think the only issue you MIGHT run in to is if you want to use Motronic 1.3 (same as the 325i or B35 powered E24, E32 and E34) is that the toothed balancer on the front of a B35 might have the wrong number of holes to bolt to an M90. This is not confirmed though... If you want I could go count the bolts on my M90 vs my B35. The Motronic 1.1 like the E28 535i/is and mid-run 635CSi used would be a very simple conversion as long as you use a flywheel with the pins for the reference sensors.
    After processing this info, here's my next set of questions:

    From the above info I gather that the M90 swap can be done by following a standard M30 swap into an E30, but the only difference might be adapting the particular vintage of motronic to it. I haven't read alot on M30 swaps, but from the above and a little reading elsewhere, can I extrapolate that using an M30B35 would allow me to use the existing engine harness in my 325i, and just swap the ECU and any appropriate engine-side sensors/components? And to have this compatibility in an M90 I'd need to use the balancer from a B35, which might have the incorrect number or pattern of mounting/bolt holes? Anyone know whether the holes match up; I'd much prefer to simply keep my engine harness and altogether keep the swap as simple/drop in/"normal" as possible.

    Are there any definitive or respected swap guides that I could lean on in terms of seeing EXACTLY what parts I would need to collect for such a project? Something along the lines of an E30 M30 Swap for Dummies? I know a respectable amount of information about E30s, however engine internals and specifics are definitely a weak area for me and still fairly intimidating. I know one that I'd perused before was this one, and it seemed very thorough.

    I had read somewhere on here about people using something from M10 engines in regards to the intake on M90s I think? Is this something worth looking into, or is not applicable to my application, or am I even just misreading things?

    The engine I'm looking at comes with a transmission also (seller said either 262 or 265, he's not sure which, but it's the non-dogleg one). The price was started at $1000 for both tranny and engine, although I spoke with him and he seemed willing to negotiate since he's not exactly sure of the value, and I don't want the weber carbs. Is this a fair price? What would be reasonable to try to bargain to?

    Lastly, what kind of differentials do M30 swaps require? Is the medium case one used on M20 E30s appropriate? I have a 3.73 LSD sitting in my garage that I bought not too long ago to swap into my E30 and it'd be a nice bonus if it were appropriate for the swap.

    Thanks for any answers or help you can provide.
    86Zinno

    #2
    Hmm, you are in Stamford, I'm right up the road in Stratford. Were you looking at that '80 635csi Euro on ebay or another car?

    Whatever M30 you swap into an E30 has to utilize the B35 Oil Pump and Pan. It would be much easier to swap just a B35 in rather than converting a M90 over to Motronic 1.3. In addition to the toothed balancer, you also need the B35 Intake Manifold, 19lb. Injectors, Fuel Rail and a few other odds and ends.

    Also, if you decide to pass on the Engine, could you please pass the seller's info and maybe a few pictures on to me? Do you know what kind of carbs he is running (Dual Downdrafts or Triple Sidedrafts)? A good friend of mine is looking for something like this for his Bavaria. Feel free to shoot me a PM or I can give a phone number or email address.

    Best of luck on whatever you decide to do.

    Ben
    Originally posted by BillBrasky
    E36's are the Stephen Baldwin of the 3 series family. They barely hold everything together and they only sold a lot because of the popularity of their older sibling.
    1991 318i Alpine II - S50/5-lug swapped - track car
    1989 325i Cirrusblau - Daily
    1970 2500 - Malaga over Grey Cloth
    2012 F350 6.7PSD

    Comment


      #3
      I wasn't looking at one on eBay but I think I know which one you're talking about if it was/is in stamford. Lots of rust problems, gray market? I'm trying to dig up his contact info again as I talked to him about a year ago and recall he had a dogleg for sale that I'd like to include in the swap.

      I know an M90 is a little trickier and more work, but I like the old-school nature, and this particular engine has had some additional work done to it. I don't plan on passing on the engine at this point, but I'll let you know if I do. In any event I was going to sell the carbs off or have him take them off to save me some money, so perhaps your friend could benefit from them even without the engine? Thanks for the response.
      86Zinno

      Comment


        #4
        Not a problem. You can use the harness in your car with the M30, but you will still need to lengthen some of wires as the sensors on the M30 are in different places. If you are swapping in an M90 or B34 engine then you have to swap the oil pan and pump. There is no way around it. There are alot of other small odds and ends that you need in order to get it running properly, including most of the sensors from a B35. You also need B34 engine mounts.

        Most of the info you seek can be found on this forum and mye28.com. I believe euroshark swapped an M90 from an early euro 635csi into his 1984 325e.

        Thanks for the offer on the carbs, but I need a little more info. Most likely he would only want them with the motor they are paired to. Please let me know if you pass and/or if you decide to go a different route after acquiring it. What other work has been done to it?

        Thanks,
        Ben
        Originally posted by BillBrasky
        E36's are the Stephen Baldwin of the 3 series family. They barely hold everything together and they only sold a lot because of the popularity of their older sibling.
        1991 318i Alpine II - S50/5-lug swapped - track car
        1989 325i Cirrusblau - Daily
        1970 2500 - Malaga over Grey Cloth
        2012 F350 6.7PSD

        Comment


          #5
          I think it was cammed, custom pistons or something along those lines.

          I was under the impression that an M90 was basically a B35, but the pan pump and mounts for me to use will be from a B34?

          I had been talking to euroshark but haven't heard annything back in awhile unfortunately, he seems like a great source of knowledge and experience.
          86Zinno

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by 4drPwr View Post
            I think it was cammed, custom pistons or something along those lines.

            I was under the impression that an M90 was basically a B35, but the pan pump and mounts for me to use will be from a B34?

            I had been talking to euroshark but haven't heard annything back in awhile unfortunately, he seems like a great source of knowledge and experience.
            Not at all, the B35 shares the same displacement as the B34 (86mm stroke x 92mm bore) while the M90 has 84mm stroke x 93.4mm bore (same as the S38B35). The B35 has slightly reduced compression ratio (9.0:1 vs. 9.3:1 in the M90), improved head design (exhaust valves are 1mm larger than the M90 and B34) and obviously better engine management.

            In fact, I'd say the M90 shares more in common with the B34 than the B35.

            No, no, you need B35 pan and pump to utilize the M90 in an E30. E30.de B34 Engine mount brackets allow it to be bolted into the E30. Sounds like a pretty nice engine. :)

            Yes, euroshark knows quite a bit in this field, definitely someone who knows what they are talking about.
            Originally posted by BillBrasky
            E36's are the Stephen Baldwin of the 3 series family. They barely hold everything together and they only sold a lot because of the popularity of their older sibling.
            1991 318i Alpine II - S50/5-lug swapped - track car
            1989 325i Cirrusblau - Daily
            1970 2500 - Malaga over Grey Cloth
            2012 F350 6.7PSD

            Comment


              #7
              I was under the impression that the M90 was kind of a t-rex, old but kind of a brute compared to something like a standard US M30B35. Should I be looking at a M30 instead of the M90? Euroshark gave me the impression that his M90 powered E30 was alot of fun, moreso than an M30B35 swap might have been.

              The back story behind the M90 I'm probably buying is that it tore the rear subframe out of the last car it was in :p
              86Zinno

              Comment


                #8
                You mean this motor?

                Bimmerforums is the preferred online BMW Forum and community for BMW owners. At Bimmerforums, you will find technical how-to information maintenance specifics audio advice wheel and tire combinations and model specific details not found anywhere else. Our professionals are here to help make sure you find the answers you need to your questions and our community is here to help other brainstorm ideas for the future.


                Yes, you are right about the M90 being older, but more fun compared to the B35, but that does not appear to be an M90. Looks more like an overbored 2800 (2.8) Engine with some other modifications, unless it was transported into the 2800 from an E12 M535i, early E24 635csi, or early E23 735i.

                Not only that, but the bavaria M30s had issues with the heads getting warped and cracked due to overheating, which was due to coolant flow issues in the middle of the head.

                Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a B35 swap would be far easier.

                HTH,
                Ben
                Originally posted by BillBrasky
                E36's are the Stephen Baldwin of the 3 series family. They barely hold everything together and they only sold a lot because of the popularity of their older sibling.
                1991 318i Alpine II - S50/5-lug swapped - track car
                1989 325i Cirrusblau - Daily
                1970 2500 - Malaga over Grey Cloth
                2012 F350 6.7PSD

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well this is a twist...How could I have him verify which engine it is?
                  86Zinno

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Have him look for an "L" on the intake side of the block. Also, check to see what date the head is stamped. If it is 78, 79, 80 or 81 then it might be a possibility of being an M90. Anything earlier would probably indicate it being a bavaria motor.

                    Definitely have him give you as much info as possible.
                    Originally posted by BillBrasky
                    E36's are the Stephen Baldwin of the 3 series family. They barely hold everything together and they only sold a lot because of the popularity of their older sibling.
                    1991 318i Alpine II - S50/5-lug swapped - track car
                    1989 325i Cirrusblau - Daily
                    1970 2500 - Malaga over Grey Cloth
                    2012 F350 6.7PSD

                    Comment

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