Ghetto M30 swap.

[Van31]

So i want to do the cheapest possible M30 swap. (within reason ;) )

I've been lurking for a while, but there isnt terribly much information on models that were never delivered to the US, or that are after 1987.
I've aquired a freshly sprayed, 323i 86 coupe w/ leather interior, slotted rotors, and the body is straight.

I'm trying to the cheapest possible swap to get some balls into the E30 chassis, so i want to spend as little as is possible.

I read somewhere that the Getrag 240 (gearbox from early 318i with m10) bolts right up to the M30, and if treated right, can take the huge just in torque, however the clutch wont do at all.
This guy the used a 323i flywheel and clutch, with a 323i auto driveshaft which bolted straight up (small flanges)

Have you heard of anything that supports this? DO you think the 323i clutch(it's not in bad nick) would take the boost in power?


Cars i can use for parts are, 323i '85(M), 323i '86(A), 318i '85 (M) all run and everything works on all of them.

From what i've heard i can still use the M20 radiator with some didgy piping, i can buy the engine mounts online here, i can use my G240, with the 323i auto driveshaft, 323i clutch and flywheel, and i'll ahve to buy either an e32 /e34 wreck or motor, with everything from exhaust to ECU.

Sorry if there is information here about these cheap swaps, but i've been looking for a while

[chance]

I don't see how you could do it much less than 1000 USD especially since the engine mounts are 300 by themselves. But if you already have those cars available to rob parts off of, you could probably do it.

I imagine the 240 will hold up. I would avoid clutch dumps, but my friend is running one Bering an m52 with s52 cams and it hasn't exploded yet.

[Doughnut]

Look around for parts mate and take your time, please don't cut corners with quality and workmanship...

If it's second hand Euro parts your after, "ASV" are normally good to deal with.

Shoot up some pictures and keep us in the loop during your conversion.

GL!

[Doughnut]

Engineering these cars should only cost you around $500, I recommend doing this after your swap is complete.

I'm so glad I did before a nosey policeman wanted me to pop the hood to "see what what I had.." He picked the fabricated engine brackets and knew straight away the engine was swapped.

[george graves]

What's that's saying? I'm going to get it wrong - I'm tired....but to get something done you can...

...do it cheap, do it quick, or do it right. But you can *only* pick two of the three.

Since cheap is on your list - doing it quick is out of the questions if you want to do it right. If you want to do it right(or working for that matter), well, forget about doing it quick.

Since you have more time then money....First on your list is homework. Start by reading every thread in this sub forum. I mean every last one, post, by post, word for word - take notes. Believe it or not - everything you need to know is here.

AFTER you've done that - pick up http://www.calusodetailing.com/e30swaps.html - it will give you a overall - and then you'll be able to make a spreadsheet and start a budget.

When I did my swap - no one that spoke English had done one IIRC - and I only *wish* I had all this info a click away.

That's my advice. But if you like to just "wing it" - well, good luck to ya. This type of swap lends itself more to the kind of guy that can carefully plan things out, make a spread sheet, and keep track of 100 details at once.

My 2 cents....

[lukeADE335i]

How cheap is cheap?

Having done the swap 12 months ago as cheaply as I could (but done properly) - some things you have suggested won't work and aren't worth not doing properly.

The G240 will work, you can use your M10 flywheel, but this will require an uprated clutch, budget on $450 (imported) - $600 (local). Mine has held together for about a year now.

The 228mm clutch will hold the torque, but M20 flywheel won't work due to slightly different diameter (trust me - I did this, and the ring gear on the M20 flywheel lasted a month).

The 323i auto tailshaft is too short - the correct one with the engine in P3 and a G240 is a late 320i. A 323i manual tailshaft will work at a pinch, but you need to lengthen it on the splines and shift the centre bearing mounting point forward slightly. You could shorten your 318i shaft ($200 or so).

Don't bother with the M20 radiator - we live in a hot country. Get an e28 535i or don't bother.

Mounts - get them here, or e30.de.

My swap came in at around $2300AUD using a stock 325i exhaust. This excludes engineering (which will vary state to state), and I got a lot of parts for dirt cheap. My M30 was in good nick, and only $100 for example.

Good luck, you'll find plenty of info here.

[Doughnut]

How cheap is cheap?

Having done the swap 12 months ago as cheaply as I could (but done properly) - some things you have suggested won't work and aren't worth not doing properly.

The G240 will work, you can use your M10 flywheel, but this will require an uprated clutch, budget on $450 (imported) - $600 (local). Mine has held together for about a year now.

The 228mm clutch will hold the torque, but M20 flywheel won't work due to slightly different diameter (trust me - I did this, and the ring gear on the M20 flywheel lasted a month).

The 323i auto tailshaft is too short - the correct one with the engine in P3 and a G240 is a late 320i. A 323i manual tailshaft will work at a pinch, but you need to lengthen it on the splines and shift the centre bearing mounting point forward slightly. You could shorten your 318i shaft ($200 or so).

Don't bother with the M20 radiator - we live in a hot country. Get an e28 535i or don't bother.

Mounts - get them here, or e30.de.

My swap came in at around $2300AUD using a stock 325i exhaust. This excludes engineering (which will vary state to state), and I got a lot of parts for dirt cheap. My M30 was in good nick, and only $100 for example.

Good luck, you'll find plenty of info here.

Cheers Luke, my thoughts exactly ;)

[Van31]

A friend of mine is trying to get rid of his 735i E23 and he said he's only after "a few hundred bucks" , should i pounce? I read the M30B34 isnt the best motor for the swap less power l'jet etc, but the L'jet from the motor might make the L'jet wiring of the car a bit easier.


I'd try and run something similar to this. Except the B34, try and get a 228mm flywheel off an old 2002 guy I know, a modified shifter from the current car.

M30B35 engine with M30B35 starter
M10 318i '85 Getrag 240
M10 flywheel
M10 spigot bearing
M10 Australian Clutch Service HD organic clutch kit (basically a stage 1 - you don't need to go to 'stage 3' if the clutch is decent quality)
e30 320i G240 propshaft
e21 G242 shifter plate & linkage

( http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=304655 )

How cheap is cheap?

Having done the swap 12 months ago as cheaply as I could (but done properly) - some things you have suggested won't work and aren't worth not doing properly.

The G240 will work, you can use your M10 flywheel, but this will require an uprated clutch, budget on $450 (imported) - $600 (local). Mine has held together for about a year now.

The 228mm clutch will hold the torque, but M20 flywheel won't work due to slightly different diameter (trust me - I did this, and the ring gear on the M20 flywheel lasted a month).

The 323i auto tailshaft is too short - the correct one with the engine in P3 and a G240 is a late 320i. A 323i manual tailshaft will work at a pinch, but you need to lengthen it on the splines and shift the centre bearing mounting point forward slightly. You could shorten your 318i shaft ($200 or so).

Don't bother with the M20 radiator - we live in a hot country. Get an e28 535i or don't bother.

Mounts - get them here, or e30.de.

My swap came in at around $2300AUD using a stock 325i exhaust. This excludes engineering (which will vary state to state), and I got a lot of parts for dirt cheap. My M30 was in good nick, and only $100 for example.

Good luck, you'll find plenty of info here.

I have access to a 323i manual, 323i auto, 318i manual, 318i auto tailshaft, I read somewhere (I cant find it now) that a guy managed to make a stock 323i auto tailshaft fit in the most rearward position, i'll try find it and post again. How muchexhaust modification was needed?

What's that's saying? I'm going to get it wrong - I'm tired....but to get something done you can...

...do it cheap, do it quick, or do it right. But you can *only* pick two of the three.

Since cheap is on your list - doing it quick is out of the questions if you want to do it right. If you want to do it right(or working for that matter), well, forget about doing it quick.

Since you have more time then money....First on your list is homework. Start by reading every thread in this sub forum. I mean every last one, post, by post, word for word - take notes. Believe it or not - everything you need to know is here.

AFTER you've done that - pick up http://www.calusodetailing.com/e30swaps.html - it will give you a overall - and then you'll be able to make a spreadsheet and start a budget.

When I did my swap - no one that spoke English had done one IIRC - and I only *wish* I had all this info a click away.

That's my advice. But if you like to just "wing it" - well, good luck to ya. This type of swap lends itself more to the kind of guy that can carefully plan things out, make a spread sheet, and keep track of 100 details at once.

My 2 cents....

I completely agree

Engineering these cars should only cost you around $500, I recommend doing this after your swap is complete.

I'm so glad I did before a nosey policeman wanted me to pop the hood to "see what what I had.." He picked the fabricated engine brackets and knew straight away the engine was swapped.

I am kind of worried about this, if I go ahead, what did you need to do for engineering (i'm in NSW)? uprated brakes? suspension? emissions? I've never had to deal with this side of things.


Also, off track, a bought a freshly sprayed 86 coupe for $200 as a non runner, one of the macpherson struts at the front has a crack which has been welded then rusted out...is this fixable within reason? the paint is good, the car has some rust, but it has a clean interior, and an incredibly straight body. It has uprated brakes too.. could be the 335i?



Thank you for the replies.

[lukeADE335i]

The e23 could have a high compression B34, which would be good! 160kW vs 155kW for the B35. Be careful that the engine isn't older than the car though, pretty sure in NSW you can't fit an older motor to a newer chassis (the e32 came out in '86, so it'd be touch and go with your chassis).

I'm not sure what to look for on the B34 to check whether it's a high compression or low compression engine. In SA, a low compression B34 could be fitted to an e30 under the "20% rule" which allows you to fit an engine that is rated within 20% of the most powerful engine fitted to the chassis, in our case a 325i. There could be a similar rule in NSW.

If you can get the 228mm M10 clutch off an '02, then you'll be good to go with the M20 clutch kit (and save a few bucks on the uprated clutch).

"The Humjet" claimed to have used the 323i auto tail shaft, but it's too short by several inches. I think he just remembered incorrectly, or the wrecker marked it incorrectly when he bought it and he probably used a 323i manual tail shaft.

Looking at the list of donor parts you have available, you should be able to get your swap happening fairly easily.

[Van31]

The e23 could have a high compression B34, which would be good! 160kW vs 155kW for the B35. Be careful that the engine isn't older than the car though, pretty sure in NSW you can't fit an older motor to a newer chassis (the e32 came out in '86, so it'd be touch and go with your chassis).

I'm not sure what to look for on the B34 to check whether it's a high compression or low compression engine. In SA, a low compression B34 could be fitted to an e30 under the "20% rule" which allows you to fit an engine that is rated within 20% of the most powerful engine fitted to the chassis, in our case a 325i. There could be a similar rule in NSW.

If you can get the 228mm M10 clutch off an '02, then you'll be good to go with the M20 clutch kit (and save a few bucks on the uprated clutch).

"The Humjet" claimed to have used the 323i auto tail shaft, but it's too short by several inches. I think he just remembered incorrectly, or the wrecker marked it incorrectly when he bought it and he probably used a 323i manual tail shaft.

Looking at the list of donor parts you have available, you should be able to get your swap happening fairly easily.

I just checked a thread you started, havent had any problems at all with the G240? And what clutch are you using?
But the factory 320i manual will bolt straight up?

I have a feeling the car is one of the very last E23's, 86. So the motor could be okay in the age department.

Is yours engineered? Did you have to upgrade brakes?

I'm fairly sure the 20% rule exists here as well.

[lukeADE335i]

The G240 has been fine thus far. There's been no noticeable decline in its performance. I've clocked up approx. 15000km.

The specs you posted higher up are the specs of my car. I'm running a 215mm uprated clutch kit for a 318i.

*M30B35 engine with M30B35 starter
M10 318i '85 Getrag 240
M10 flywheel
M10 spigot bearing
M10 Australian Clutch Service HD organic clutch kit (basically a stage 1 - you don't need to go to 'stage 3' if the clutch is decent quality)
e30 320i G240 propshaft
e21 G242 shifter plate & linkage*

If you get a late (post 85) M10 gearbox, you should be able to run the e30 320i shifter arm & linkage. I have an early box unfortunately, which uses the pressed steel shifter plate, which is why I used the e21 stuff. The 320i propshaft will bolt right up with the engine in p3 using e30.de mounts.

As for rego, as you are looking at a B34, you could put in the forms for a low compression engine and then get it passed under the 20% rule. This should just require an RTA inspection. There was a member on EUROCCA who had his M30B35 swap passed in NSW with stock sized slotted discs. May well have been "Doughnut" here - I don't remember which user it was over there.