Need some guidance for getting my m30 swap BAR legal

[brandn]

so i decided to look at this "no check engine light" thing, so i took out the instrument cluster... turns out there's no cel at all - no wiring, no bulb, nothing! seems like the car came stock without it, which apparently some models did and some didn't? i tried searching around and couldn't really find much, but is there any way to rig up a working CEL?

[brandn]

You just need to get stock headers that go with the engine. You only need a separate CARB certification for aftermarket parts.

Alright, cool. The guy said i needed documentation for OEM headers though, how would i prove that? isn't there usually supposed to be something welded on the header saying so, or no?

[nrubenstein]

Alright, so I just need to add the O2 sensor further down the exhaust to right before the cat. Seems easy enough lol.



I know I have to rebuild the exhaust, I've accepted it. The only hard part is finding headers that come with documentation/CARB sticker. I just can't seem to find anything that's approved. Might have to scavenge a junkyard.

You just need to get stock headers that go with the engine. You only need a separate CARB certification for aftermarket parts.

[brandn]

The stock e34 headers are the M30B35 cast iron exhaust manifolds. These fit the e30 no problem at all with the stock e34 down pipes.

The O2 sensor is no doubt missing because on the M20 it's in the top part of the down pipes near the engine - this part gets cut off the exhaust when switching to the tubular headers, and isn't compatible with the e34 manifolds / downpipes either - the e34 runs the O2 sensor down by the catalytic converter, so you can weld one in there, just before the cat, or modify the stock e34 front pipes to an e34 cat?

Alright, so I just need to add the O2 sensor further down the exhaust to right before the cat. Seems easy enough lol.

You're going to need to rebuild the exhaust. Just accept that.

And an approved DME is one that matches the engine. This is a documentation issue.

I know I have to rebuild the exhaust, I've accepted it. The only hard part is finding headers that come with documentation/CARB sticker. I just can't seem to find anything that's approved. Might have to scavenge a junkyard.

[nrubenstein]

Couldn't find a sticker.. it's dark out now so I'll look again tomorrow.

I was reviewing my paperwork, and the only real issues I'm having is with headers and the cat. Only problem is I'm having a hard time finding any headers online that are OEM or CARB approved... maybe I should just print out a CARB sticker and some old OE form lol

another thing that confused me is the diagnostic shows that I need to "Install Approved PCM/ECM/VCM" ... is this not just the ECU? Wouldn't my engine not be running if I didn't have the proper ECU?

You're going to need to rebuild the exhaust. Just accept that.

And an approved DME is one that matches the engine. This is a documentation issue.

[TobyB]

4. An m30 is literally an m20, just bigger.

An M30 is literally an M10, just with 2 added cylinders. And sometimes a bore. And maybe a stroke. Depending on era.

The M20 is an orphan scion of the late 70's, early 80's fuel crisis.
Its bottom end lived on in the M4x and then M5x DOHC motors.

t
bored at work.

[lukeADE335i]

The stock e34 headers are the M30B35 cast iron exhaust manifolds. These fit the e30 no problem at all with the stock e34 down pipes.

The O2 sensor is no doubt missing because on the M20 it's in the top part of the down pipes near the engine - this part gets cut off the exhaust when switching to the tubular headers, and isn't compatible with the e34 manifolds / downpipes either - the e34 runs the O2 sensor down by the catalytic converter, so you can weld one in there, just before the cat, or modify the stock e34 front pipes to an e34 cat?

[brandn]

The one thing that puts BAR guys on their ass is documentation. If the VIN sticker is still present on your engine (it's on the driver's side of the head, sort of under the injector harness block), tell them to run it.

An engine swapped car has to have all original emissions equipment or CARB-EO-# alternatives for all motor components. Nothing more, nothing less.

Couldn't find a sticker.. it's dark out now so I'll look again tomorrow.

I was reviewing my paperwork, and the only real issues I'm having is with headers and the cat. Only problem is I'm having a hard time finding any headers online that are OEM or CARB approved... maybe I should just print out a CARB sticker and some old OE form lol

another thing that confused me is the diagnostic shows that I need to "Install Approved PCM/ECM/VCM" ... is this not just the ECU? Wouldn't my engine not be running if I didn't have the proper ECU?

[kronus]

The one thing that puts BAR guys on their ass is documentation. If the VIN sticker is still present on your engine (it's on the driver's side of the head, sort of under the injector harness block), tell them to run it.

An engine swapped car has to have all original emissions equipment or CARB-EO-# alternatives for all motor components. Nothing more, nothing less.

[brandn]

I'm not gonna sell the car. It's not my daily, it's intended to be a fun little project for myself but getting it registered has to come first unfortunately. Maybe I can get it registered out of state...? rather just get it done right though, there's not anything terrible I have to do, so it's not that bad, just a pain in the ass.

I was late for work cause this technician guy took 30 mins longer than supposed to, so I couldn't really argue with him unfortunately. Next time will be different though lmao

1. No e30 or m30b35 car ever had OBD, either 1 or 2. OBD1 wasn't introduced until 1995, and was quickly superseded by OBD2 in 1996. If you have a CEL, you need to fix it BEFORE going in to BAR.
2. OEM headers absolutely fit in the e30 chassis; I had them on my car for 5 years with zero issues. I have no idea if BAR outlaws aftermarket headers, but you can fit OEM ones easily.
3. Any CARB-compliant cat should work. Just make sure you keep the proof of purchase, owner's manual, installation receipt, etc to show the inspector as proof.
4. An m30 is literally an m20, just bigger. Every sensor is the same. If your car started as an '87 325i, then just make sure all of the wiring and sensors are still installed and working. Yes, you'll absolutely need an O2 sensor to pass emissions in any state, not just CA.
5. How do you know they're aftermarket? Normal m30b35 injectors have an orange-ish body and flow 19lbs/hr, which is plenty even if you have a performance chip.
6. It could be your gas cap, or it could also be the charcoal canister. Hint: the canister has it's own sensor that periodically purges the fuel vapors in to the intake to be burned. Might have something to do with the larger sensor issue.
7. You can't run an m20 ECU on an m30 motor; the motor and ECU must match. Either way, neither of those ECUs "stored codes", at least not from a universal OBD standpoint. BMW has their own built-in diagnostic system, but I don't know if BAR has the capabilities to read it. Just like #1, make sure the car is running at 100% before taking it in.

1. That's what I said, so when he said OBD I conversion I nearly shit myself. Also, my CEL is NOT on.
2. I did not know that! I was told otherwise. I'm gonna look into that then, thank you!
3. Looking into buying a new cat from summit (maybe) already, I thought mine was CARB approved but I suppose I'm mistaken.
4. Yes, I honestly have no idea why there is no O2 sensor, pretty stupid. An OEM replacements already on its way.
5. I don't know if their aftermarket, that's what the technician told me. I have a gut feeling they're not, I'll check on that later though.
6. Could be, the guy told me specifically that the gas cap was broken (checked after work, it's not, the seals just a lil dirty... smh).
7. Car is running awesome, and I don't understand the ECU thing anyway, doesn't make any sense especially since the engine is pre-OBD.

Thank you for your input, actually very helpful!

op, sounds like that BAR dude doesn't know shit if he thinks that M30 should be OBD1. what year did you tell him the motor was?

Honestly I'm pretty sure he doesn't know shit at all (my test was at 7 am, dude was probably half asleep), I just had to accept defeat and get out of there to book it to work, next time I'll definitely confront the guy about things that don't add up. He said it needs a "CEL installed and way to read it" ... it's in the dash, and you do a stomp test..? fuckyoumean

I told him it was out of an 89 735i, because I think it was (either 88 or 89, not 100% sure but same difference).

[dereliiict]

Move out of California,
or sell the car.

Or find an inspector who will 'work with you'.

he says, from far outside that state.

t

PNW is full.










Don't give them ideas.

[kronus]

1. No e30 or m30b35 car ever had OBD, either 1 or 2. OBD1 wasn't introduced until 1995, and was quickly superseded by OBD2 in 1996. If you have a CEL, you need to fix it BEFORE going in to BAR.
2. OEM headers absolutely fit in the e30 chassis; I had them on my car for 5 years with zero issues. I have no idea if BAR outlaws aftermarket headers, but you can fit OEM ones easily.
3. Any CARB-compliant cat should work. Just make sure you keep the proof of purchase, owner's manual, installation receipt, etc to show the inspector as proof.
4. An m30 is literally an m20, just bigger. Every sensor is the same. If your car started as an '87 325i, then just make sure all of the wiring and sensors are still installed and working. Yes, you'll absolutely need an O2 sensor to pass emissions in any state, not just CA.
5. How do you know they're aftermarket? Normal m30b35 injectors have an orange-ish body and flow 19lbs/hr, which is plenty even if you have a performance chip.
6. It could be your gas cap, or it could also be the charcoal canister. Hint: the canister has it's own sensor that periodically purges the fuel vapors in to the intake to be burned. Might have something to do with the larger sensor issue.
7. You can't run an m20 ECU on an m30 motor; the motor and ECU must match. Either way, neither of those ECUs "stored codes", at least not from a universal OBD standpoint. BMW has their own built-in diagnostic system, but I don't know if BAR has the capabilities to read it. Just like #1, make sure the car is running at 100% before taking it in.

this is all on point

minor nit on the last bit - you can run an m30 with an m20 ecu, as long as there's an m30 chip in it



op, sounds like that BAR dude doesn't know shit if he thinks that M30 should be OBD1. what year did you tell him the motor was?

[CorvallisBMW]

I pretty much just need some guidance as to what I need to buy/do to the car to get it to pass this stupid test. The only real issues I have are :

- OBD I conversion. The guy said there's no way to read the CEL codes, so I have to convert it.
- OEM Headers. It currently has aftermarket headers since the OEM ones don't fit in an e30 chassis... (he said something about it not having an aftermarket equipment sticker or something.. wtf is that?) Maybe I could lift the car to fit some headers, haha.
- Catalytic Converter. I guess I just have to buy an OEM cat...? It already has a much beefier one than OEM but ok.
- Missing Wiring to Sensors. Assuming this is just the O2 sensor, which is missing. Any other sensors to worry about?
- Fuel Injection. Has "aftermarket fuel injectors" so it can't pass there. smh what do I replace these with?
- Defective Fuel Evaporated Controls. I think this is just that the gas cap seal is bad.
- ECU. He said I needed the stock ECU to read codes or something?? wtf? Currently have 325i harness with (what I'm pretty sure is) an e32 ECU.

1. No e30 or m30b35 car ever had OBD, either 1 or 2. OBD1 wasn't introduced until 1995, and was quickly superseded by OBD2 in 1996. If you have a CEL, you need to fix it BEFORE going in to BAR.
2. OEM headers absolutely fit in the e30 chassis; I had them on my car for 5 years with zero issues. I have no idea if BAR outlaws aftermarket headers, but you can fit OEM ones easily.
3. Any CARB-compliant cat should work. Just make sure you keep the proof of purchase, owner's manual, installation receipt, etc to show the inspector as proof.
4. An m30 is literally an m20, just bigger. Every sensor is the same. If your car started as an '87 325i, then just make sure all of the wiring and sensors are still installed and working. Yes, you'll absolutely need an O2 sensor to pass emissions in any state, not just CA.
5. How do you know they're aftermarket? Normal m30b35 injectors have an orange-ish body and flow 19lbs/hr, which is plenty even if you have a performance chip.
6. It could be your gas cap, or it could also be the charcoal canister. Hint: the canister has it's own sensor that periodically purges the fuel vapors in to the intake to be burned. Might have something to do with the larger sensor issue.
7. You can't run an m20 ECU on an m30 motor; the motor and ECU must match. Either way, neither of those ECUs "stored codes", at least not from a universal OBD standpoint. BMW has their own built-in diagnostic system, but I don't know if BAR has the capabilities to read it. Just like #1, make sure the car is running at 100% before taking it in.

[TobyB]

Move out of California,
or sell the car.

Or find an inspector who will 'work with you'.

he says, from far outside that state.

t

[nrubenstein]

My honest suggestion based on your questions is that you should sell the car.

That said:

You need a CARB compliant cat.
You need a functioning fuel cap.
You need stock injectors / proof that the injectors are stock.
You need to hook up all sensors. (This is likely to get you inside test parameters.)
The Evap system is separate from the fuel cap. You need to hook up and fix this.
You need CARB compliant headers. (I believe that there are stock headers that work, but I'm not going to research which ones for you.)

"Currently have 325i harness with (what I'm pretty sure is) an e32 ECU." Uhh.... Good luck.