m88?

[JoeMadoo]

Joe, leave the plastic motors alone, its not nice!

lmao

[Jonsku]

When fitting M88 to E30 the biggest problem is the plenum, which has to be cutted or brake booster has to be modified quite much to fit the engine. Otherwise it's like fitting M30 - quite easy and straightforward.

S38 would be more sensible, though. Or even S50, even if it hasn't the same feel as big old M5 engines...

[Justinian]

Actually it's the same block as the early M30 Euro blocks which are different than other M30 blocks, and from what I've read in this nifty book sitting next to me, the blocks are identical. 93.355mm pistons (those do differ for the 4 valve head), 84mm stroke, same forged crank and same rods.

Thats the block that is sitting in my E30 right now!

Nice! I have decided after a few long months that the M90 is getting a 265 trans and going into my mint 1978 633 with a few other cool euro bits.

What trans are you using with the M90? Have you thought about changing the intake runners to the 320 intake runners?

Cheers!

[James Crivellone]

So the S50 cars are a little faster, eh, who cares. they are COMPARABLE ENOUGH, that one is not going to vastly outdo the other.

on topic
Maintenance is similar in cost to an S14

Joe, leave the plastic motors alone, its not nice!

[Van Westervelt]

So the S50 cars are a little faster, eh, who cares. they are COMPARABLE ENOUGH, that one is not going to vastly outdo the other.

You mean when you got "vastly outdone" by a stock s50 with a ridiculously slipping clutch, it was still comparable? Good to know. Like to compare when I get me fresh clutch in?

[BenM]

^^ What he said.

A full rebuild with just parts and machine work is usually between 10-15K.

[Funkmasta]

oh you know curt, david, ed, jason, myself (although i never got to pace you in my m52). basically all the local 24 valve cars.

on topic: id be curious as to how much more maintenance would be required over a s14.

So the S50 cars are a little faster, eh, who cares. they are COMPARABLE ENOUGH, that one is not going to vastly outdo the other.

on topic
Maintenance is similar in cost to an S14

[smonkbmw]

... which would be whom?

oh you know curt, david, ed, jason, myself (although i never got to pace you in my m52). basically all the local 24 valve cars.

on topic: id be curious as to how much more maintenance would be required over a s14.

[Funkmasta]

i know 5 people that would disagree.

... which would be whom?

[smonkbmw]

My chipped M30b35 is as much fun as an S50 car.

i know 5 people that would disagree.

[Funkmasta]

^ speaks the truth.

Unless you have a SUPER hard-on for badass swaps and have an endless wallet, don't do the M88.

I would disagree that the S50 is more fun. My chipped M30b35 is as much fun as an S50 car. In the big heavy 6, it is difficult to appreciate the torque. but in an E30, you would be totally golden.

So, regarding your pockets. How deep are they?

[iXBeater]

The M88 block is only distantly related to the M30. Overall it is really a lot closer to an M90 (used in the early Euro 635's).

It has a single-row timing chain, unlike it's later brother the S38 which had a dual-row chain. When I had my tensioner and rails done, I upgraded my M88/3 to a dual row setup.

I've seen E30's with an M88 installed (even an iX, which must have been a big project), but it really isn't a great swap vs. the alternatives. It is a motor that requires you staying up in the revs for the power band - S50 is always going to be more fun.

It is a motor that has an expensive service at 100K miles [replacing the timing chain rails (hard) and tensioner (easy)] and requires special pucks for a valve adjustment (not shared w/ S38 or any other BMW motor, so not something most shops have). M30's don't generally have chain/rails/tensioner issues, but the M88/3 and S38B35 (US E24 M6 and US E28 M5's) surely do. You can't ignore them but for so long, and if something fails, you are in a world of hurt. Rebuilds on these motors start at $10K and go on up. Net: it is much more maintenance-intensive vs. an s50.

Cliff's Note's Version: Don't put an M88 in an E30 - not worth it.

[FredK]

nah nah nah, I meant the M88 had the single row

[euroshark]

I've never heard of or seen a snapped M30 timing chain. They are not a service item at any mileage according to any manual I've seen. There are guys on MyE28.com with 300 - 400k miles on stock internals. The things that usually need service are the chain guides and tensioner, and since replacing those requires removing the upper and lower (pita) timing covers, you might as well replace the $18 chain while you are in there!

If a chain were to fail, I doubt it would kill the engine. The thing people don't understand about M30s is that they are freaking indestrucable. I had an overrevved M30, it was so bad that the valves cut grooves into the tops of the pistons! Reportedly the driver was going from 4th to 5th at over 100mph and accidentally hit 3rd gear. Suprisingly, the motor ran and none of the valves were even bent!! The bottom end checked out, it was reasembled with a new head (the old one had cracks around 4 exhaust valves, that were unrelated to the overrev... and it did get new valves ), and the motor ran beautifully. Now it sits in my dad's 1979 633CSi and has well over 230k on it. He drives it every day to work about 25 miles there and back and it's as strong as one could hope for.

[FredK]

what do you mean maintenance hos?I hear that the M30 single row timing chain virtually never needs to be changed throughout the lifetime of the engine.

That's true.

If the timing chain doesn't get changed and it snaps, the engine's lifetime is over. :D

Nah I don't really know much about these engines. Just repeatin' what I heard.