m62b44tu questions

[bmwmech1]

Regarding "Frankenstein M60B44" - has anyone actually tried one yet or are we still speculating? :)

My Frankenstein is built and in the car, but not running yet... I am still a little ways from having the car done electrically... couple of months on the outside, I'd say...:) It's real and it works, as far as the parts and pieces go.

Garey

[Wanganstyle]

Electric accelerator is actually pretty simple, there's one used in 324td so you've basically all the required parts available OEM for E30 ;)


Regarding "Frankenstein M60B44" - has anyone actually tried one yet or are we still speculating? :)

... and what comes to emissions, I'm pretty sure a single tuner will not end up in a better compromise power-emission wise than BMW factory in the '90s...

Franken stein :brain management M60b40 brains and electronics installed on M62b44 has been done and ran stateside. This has been done to a former engine of mine (M62b44 1998 non-vanos from e39), the M60b30/40 crank sensor was installed with a welded on bracket to mimic the obd1 original setup.

the 97/98 M62b44 is non-vanos and easy to run in OBD1 mode. it also has the same inlet manifold runner size as the M60b40 with different trumpets than the M60.

how does it run? decent. not as good as the original M62B44 OBD2 brain does.

[bmwmech1]

Franken stein :brain management M60b40 brains and electronics installed on M62b44 has been done and ran stateside. This has been done to a former engine of mine (M62b44 1998 non-vanos from e39), the M60b30/40 crank sensor was installed with a welded on bracket to mimic the obd1 original setup.

the 97/98 M62b44 is non-vanos and easy to run in OBD1 mode. it also has the same inlet manifold runner size as the M60b40 with different trumpets than the M60.

how does it run? decent. not as good as the original M62B44 OBD2 brain does.

That's not the Frankenstein style motor that we're talking about... running B40 management on an M62 motor is not Frankenstein. What we're talking about is using an M62B44TU short block with M60B40 heads, dual row timing chain assembly, intake, front cam covers and management. This nets a V8 with the largest OEM displacement in the series, the best OEM cams, valve springs, timing chain setup, the smallest combustion chamber netting the highest compression ratio... lots of plus sides to this. You basically get a stroker B40 with the better cams, but it's OBDI and will run the 404 DME with a custom chip. This is the Frankenstein motor we're talking about. I have mine built and in the E30 M3 project I've been working on for ~2 years. There's a build thread for the motor on e30tech and here, with pictures. Should be completed and debuted in the spring...

Garey

[sticksdaman]

does the non vanos m62b44 have the dual row timing chain like on the m60?

aside from vanos whats the difference between the obd1 and obd2 m62b44?

[dude8383]

does the non vanos m62b44 have the dual row timing chain like on the m60?

aside from vanos whats the difference between the obd1 and obd2 m62b44?

LOL I see I'm not the only one creeping the V8 threads :P

[bmwmech1]

does the non vanos m62b44 have the dual row timing chain like on the m60?

aside from vanos whats the difference between the obd1 and obd2 m62b44?

No, the M62 does not have the dual row timing chain, or the double valve springs, or the hotter cams, no matter whether its a B44 or a B44TU. Vanos, water pump, throttle body/electronic throttle, intake, injectors, 2 cam position sensors and crank sensor location are most of the differences between the B44 and B44TU. Between the B40 and the B44, the main differences are the timing chain, valve springs, seperator drain tube and cams. I have not physically compared the head castings between a B40 and B44, but I'd guess the are different, but can't say for sure. I have compered the B40 and B44TU and they are obviously different. Other than those items above, there may be a few more I'm not thinking of, but that's pretty much it.
To sum it up, the B40 and B44's are pretty different, but the blocks, other than bore, are identical...

Garey

[Wanganstyle]

That's not the Frankenstein style motor that we're talking about... running B40 management on an M62 motor is not Frankenstein. What we're talking about is using an M62B44TU short block with M60B40 heads, dual row timing chain assembly, intake, front cam covers and management. This nets a V8 with the largest OEM displacement in the series, the best OEM cams, valve springs, timing chain setup, the smallest combustion chamber netting the highest compression ratio... lots of plus sides to this. You basically get a stroker B40 with the better cams, but it's OBDI and will run the 404 DME with a custom chip. This is the Frankenstein motor we're talking about. I have mine built and in the E30 M3 project I've been working on for ~2 years. There's a build thread for the motor on e30tech and here, with pictures. Should be completed and debuted in the spring...

Garey

Oh? neat. great progress. found the post on e30tech.

what does the compression calculate out to? how much of a step on the combustion chamber is there? are the valves different diameter stems?
how matched for the valves are the B44 pistons?

have you considered using the even smaller chamber diameter m60B30 heads? this was considered when swapping e34it v8 with m62b44

I was a proponent of your version of franken-motor a while ago, as the m62b44 with m60b40 brains is probably less effective of a combination (performance wise) than a stock m60b40 with its management.

you will need true high compression pistons to extract more than surface level power from it, as well as some oiling improvements and rotating mass reduction to make it a true high performance engine, but it is a great platform. can really build it up. Uncorking the top end power could just be more compression+head work + more rpm's + long tube headers.

the S62 heads are not that much more advanced, but the induction set+cams and double vanos setup are quite awesome for torque and horsepower.

[bmwmech1]

Oh? neat. great progress.

what does the compression look out to? and how is piston/chamber setup? I will peep some threads.

I was a proponent of your version of franken-motor a while ago, as the m62b44 with m60b40 brains is probably less effective of a combination (performance wise) than a stock m60b40 with its management.

I never cc'ed the chambers to see what the exact bump was... I'd have to do some math to get a bead on it. Since the pistons aren't domed, the increase in squish is where the bump comes from. Since the heads are B40, with the smaller bore and the chambers are machined, not cast, the piston/chamber is really no different, just slightly smaller than the B44TU. This Franken-motor is all just speculation, so far though. The parts are bolted together, the chip will be custom to this setup, but it still may suck, lol! On paper it looks and sounds good, but we all know how that goes. We'll see... then again it could be roughly the same, or it could be better than a B40... dunno... yet.:):):)

Garey

[Wanganstyle]

hahaha cool. This has been done in subaru world with 1.8/2.2 heads on 2.5 blocks. some interesting results!!

[BruceBe]

you will need true high compression pistons to extract more than surface level power from it, as well as some oiling improvements and rotating mass reduction to make it a true high performance engine, but it is a great platform. can really build it up. Uncorking the top end power could just be more compression+head work + more rpm's + long tube headers.

The mods you mention could be applied to any engine build :-)

I'm keen on Garey's combination, as the hybrid draws on all of the strengths of the B40, while adding a wee-bit more compression and more displacement. All of it is directionally correct for making a more potent result, and I'm looking forward to the outcome.

-Bruce

[bmwmech1]

The mods you mention could be applied to any engine build :-)

I'm keen on Garey's combination, as the hybrid draws on all of the strengths of the B40, while adding a wee-bit more compression and more displacement. All of it is directionally correct for making a more potent result, and I'm looking forward to the outcome.

-Bruce

Well shit... I guess I better get this thing running then, lol!

Garey

[Wanganstyle]

The mods you mention could be applied to any engine build :-)

I'm keen on Garey's combination, as the hybrid draws on all of the strengths of the B40, while adding a wee-bit more compression and more displacement. All of it is directionally correct for making a more potent result, and I'm looking forward to the outcome.

-Bruce

I've played the franken motor game more than a few times before; usually the same results happen.

You wish you had done the all built high compression, worked heads + cams motor when initial shakedown is done, or had gone to the bigggggest possible combination: probably 4.6 or 4.8 from X5 and m60b40 heads if compatible. realistic gains? who knows untill it hits the dyno!

Obviously you work with what you have in these pioneering gambles.


BUT, you assemble it with slight fear in your head that it might "not" work, etc etc etc :P



BUT, that is the sheer fun of frankenmotoring... :D

I'm interested as well. have seen this game played and have the power units running in native cars to drive daily. The m62 is kind of a slug on the rpm's. Locals in the SF bay have built, blown units etc. blah blah blah.

at least the M62 has the induction and exhaust DNA shared with M60b40 and S62. This is not the case with M52/54 and S54. No such dice to roll with the I6's.

I had initially thought of this Idea a few years ago when looking at torn apart m60b30, but friend calling the shots on the project did not have the guts to play as op did. Thumbs up to Garey!

[Jonsku]

My Frankenstein is built and in the car, but not running yet... I am still a little ways from having the car done electrically... couple of months on the outside, I'd say...:) It's real and it works, as far as the parts and pieces go.

Yep, I don't mean it wouldn't work physically, but the real performance etc.. are the questions I'm throwing out. But we'll see it before the summer, right? :)

does the non vanos m62b44 have the dual row timing chain like on the m60?

aside from vanos whats the difference between the obd1 and obd2 m62b44?

M60 vs M62 differences.

You wish you had done the all built high compression, worked heads + cams motor when initial shakedown is done, or had gone to the bigggggest possible combination: probably 4.6 or 4.8 from X5 and m60b40 heads if compatible. realistic gains? who knows untill it hits the dyno!

4.6 / 4.8 are actually not so good engines due to very thin cylinder walls and they are already different (N62 engines) so not very sure they could be utilized anymore. M62B44 block with M60 heads & stuff seems to be the way to go.

[Jean]

Thanks for the link above! The 4.6 and 4.8 are not N62 though? Maybe as they become more available m62tu blocks (and even 4.6s) would be common to use?

[Jonsku]

Thanks for the link above! The 4.6 and 4.8 are not N62 though? Maybe as they become more available m62tu blocks (and even 4.6s) would be common to use?

Possibly, but I've come across couple Alpina M62B46 engines with HG problems. Well, they must be good and working engines, not very common => expensive. Anyway, I'd rather stick with B44 and possibly longer stroke (S62 crank?) with modded heads :)