E30 M3 S62 Build - Loads of queries about 4x4 drivtrains

[The Dark Side of Will]

I gotta register to view? Shiet...

http://www.m3torque.co.uk/showthread.php?t=930

Nice link, BTW.

[The Dark Side of Will]

In order to verify that you'll be getting at least as much oil volume out of the M62 pump as out of the S62 pump, you'll need to take the pumps apart and measure the size of the internal gerotor parts.

You can tell by the size of the sprocket that the S62 pump turns slower than the M62 pump. Since the S62 engine requires at least as much oil as the M62, if not more, then the S62 pump must be moving at least as much oil per *engine* revolution as the M62 pump... This means that per *pump* revolution the S62 pump moves significantly more oil than the M62 pump.

You will likely be very close on the oil volume if you use the M62 sprocket and chain to turn the pump at M62 speed, but seeing that the S62 is an expensive piece of hardware to break, I'd be inclined to disassemble both pumps and measure the internal rotors, calculate the resulting volume output to be *sure* that what you're bolting in will push as much oil as what you unbolted.

If you turn the M62 pump the same speed as the S62 pump, you'll likely not have enough oil flow.

It's good to see you working through these challenges while I'm working on other aspects of my swap. Thanks!

[Turk]

Will, Having trouble veiwing all of your pictures online.

any chance of a direct link?

cheers!

[The Dark Side of Will]

My FTP site has been down for a while... Hopefully going back up soon.

[Turk]

I now have my legas and have mocked them up on the car. the geometry seems exactly the same as the rwd version. I know i know bmw made it like that for a reason. But! with some castor correction i hope it will be good enough.

moving on, I need some advice on what bearings to use on the fronts. I would like to do the 5 lug swap while im there.

someone mentioned e90 rear bearings and hubs?

pix to follow...

Thanks

[M3 euro ltw]

This...

In order to verify that you'll be getting at least as much oil volume out of the M62 pump as out of the S62 pump, you'll need to take the pumps apart and measure the size of the internal gerotor parts.

You can tell by the size of the sprocket that the S62 pump turns slower than the M62 pump. Since the S62 engine requires at least as much oil as the M62, if not more, then the S62 pump must be moving at least as much oil per *engine* revolution as the M62 pump... This means that per *pump* revolution the S62 pump moves significantly more oil than the M62 pump.

You will likely be very close on the oil volume if you use the M62 sprocket and chain to turn the pump at M62 speed, but seeing that the S62 is an expensive piece of hardware to break, I'd be inclined to disassemble both pumps and measure the internal rotors, calculate the resulting volume output to be *sure* that what you're bolting in will push as much oil as what you unbolted.

If you turn the M62 pump the same speed as the S62 pump, you'll likely not have enough oil flow.

This is not a trivial point. Generally speaking I'm guessing that the pumps have internal pressure limiters so that the pressure doesn't exceed a given amount. But to get to the right pressures, the initial spec for radius of the driving sprocket is important.

I found this to be critical in setting up a dry sump system from scratch form my race car. You need to play with the ratio of the sprockets to set the idle pressure, and the pop-off springs will dictate the max. Some people shim or swap the springs if maximum pressure is not high enough in a stock pump. In aftermarket dry sump systems, there are different springs to pick from, as well as some tuning usually.

We don't have that luxury usually on a stock pump.

Personally I think it would be challenging to calculate flow rate per rpm.

I think duplicating the factory ratio is the right way to start, then, well, hope it's ok and watch a gauge after assembly. Could always go back and shim the spring. S14 Guys know that trick well.

[Turk]

Thanks for the input M3Euroltw.

I cant remember if i updated this forum with the final revision yet, but basically:

I found out the x5 pump was designed smaller due to the driveshaft through the sump and subframe clearance. Both blocks however require the same amount of oil but have to use different pump to deliver it. Crank cogs are the same size but run with different sprockets.

Thus using the X5 pump and sprocket is the 'ideal' set up.

Of course a pressure gauge will be fitted too.

cheerss

[The Dark Side of Will]

Thus using the X5 pump and sprocket is the 'ideal' set up.

Just keep in mind that the S62 redlines higher than the M62, so the M62 pump will be operating outside its design RPM.

After seeing your pics of the sump, I'll probably end up going that route also.

[Turk]

I dont know what to do about the brakes.

I thought about making a remote servo from a clutch slave cylinder mounted to the servo pushrod in the boot, activated by a second clutch master cylinder on the brake pedal...

From what i hear pedal boxes are way too agressive for road use.

Any advice appreciated.

[Turk]

Progress... Finally







Will, can u do me a favour and measure the length of the end of the x5 oil dipstick up the the lip ??

Cheers!

Im hoping its the same as the s62 so i dont have to go hunting for one.

[senorcarey]

Is that a G265? If so, would you be interested in making a second set of the bell housing adapter? I sure would love to keep my tranny that has a mechanical speedo and overdrive.

PM me if needed.

***EDIT: I just went back over the thread and it makes me happy as it solves a lot of issues and problems that I will encounter. I would love more info on this set-up including clutch and flywheel choice, as well as if you would be willing to a) make another adapter, or b) sell or make available the CAD files as my brother is a machinist and I could have it done on the cheap. Thank you!***

[The Dark Side of Will]

That's a nice looking piece.
Is the 265 input shaft long enough to deal with the extra depth of the bellhousing and the extra thickness of the adapter?
It's looking like I'll have to design an entirely new front plate for my transmission :-/

I can dig out my dipstick tube next weekend.

[Turk]

I can do either, I had the bracket made for £200 over here and had the machinist make the cad drawing using the precision arm for cash.

I can do either really, I will sell you the drawing for £100 as I paid £75 so i think its fair.
Or have the unit done for you and post it for £300 in billet. Bear in mind additional import duties etc.

The splines work out near perfect, there is only 10mm difference between the g265 bell and e39 bell. the slpines happily sit within the clutch teeth. The pilot bearing needs to be off of a euro s14 though.

Custom flywheel, e34 m5 Saches uprated clutch, 780nm and sprung clutch disc. Dont know how long / if it will last, we shall see.

Making the engine arms is going to be fun :D

progress pix fyi.




Drive shaft looks like it will line up.

[Turk]

[Turk]

Will, can u talk me through your steering rack solution again? I think it is going to be very tricky to overcome this. Custom subframe tricky...