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turbo 302 w/ dart block, N/A 351w or LS1

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    turbo 302 w/ dart block, N/A 351w or LS1

    Sup bros,

    So I think I've had a bit of an engine failure :(

    Took my car to the track last weekend and was beating the fuck out of it. Either my oil started foaming up real bad or my pump started sucking air up at some point, because after one particular killer run I now only have 12psi of oil pressure at idle, cold or hot. Used to be 45-50 cold, 25-30 hot :(

    Anyway, something happened, no sense in crying over spilled milk. Gotta move on, amiright? So that got me thinking... I really don't wanna pull my engine out just to put another 302 in. Not quite enough power for me. I've been toying with the idea of a turbo for the longest while, but I really don't wanna deal with the associated "turbo headache", otherwise I'd just have done a turbo m20. So here's the ideas I've been tossing around, cheapest to most expensive (I think anyway)


    Option 1: Ford 351W. The mounts and accessories I already have will work, as will the transmission... though I'll either have to get g-force parts or a TKO trans to make it hold up to the added torque. Guessitmate is about $5k to do this swap ($2kish for the tranny, another 2.5k for an upgraded rotating assembly and all that jazz)

    The upsides are a shit ton of extra torque throughout the powerband, general reliability from a N/A setup

    Downside is that the 351 is 50ish pounds heavier than the 302. Also, it's about 1.1ish inches wider on each side. Custom, extra tight headers will have to be made to compensate for this, as I've only got .5" or so on each side now between the frame and the collector flange. Also, the 351 is an inch or so taller, so my hood is gonna have to have a slight cowl to it... not cool, I know, but whatevs

    Option 2: LS1. Can't decide if this is more expensive than option #3 or not. In any case, I'm guesstimating $9-10k for this swap. 5k for the engine/tranny combo, a bit more for refresher bits and $3k for the exhaust and swap parts.

    Pros are that it's lighter than a 351, but apparently roughly the same as my current engine. Fuel injection would be nice too

    Cons are that it's fucking expensive for something that has roughly the same power as my current setup. Everything's completely different from what I already have, pretty much starting from scratch. Apparently old LS1s have bad oil starvation problems too.

    Option 3: turbo 302/332 using a dart block. This one is probably going to be the most expensive... but the most solid. $2k for the block, $2k for the rotating assembly after machining & ect, $3k for a TKO600 + bellhousing + clutch + driveshaft, $2500 for the turbo stuff/proper cooling system. So about the same price range/level of the LS1 that makes me realize I have a problem with my spending when it comes to the car, but with a potential for doubling the power.

    Pros are that I will never make enough power to crack the dart block. I'll be able to use a lot of the stuff my car already has, which will be nice & convenient. I'll have more power than I'll ever need, which will be cool too.

    Cons are, once again, fucking expensive. I already have issues keeping my car running cool at the track (though I think a fan shroud and hood vents would really help. no issues at all on the street). No idea where I'd cram an intercooler (and it'd be covering a good bit of the radiator. No bueno) but I guess maybe an air-to-water cooler could work out good since they're so compact.




    Anyway, what would you guys do if you were single, no kids, nearing 30, have no real fiscal burdens and disposable income? Only other thing I'd do with the money is maybe some home improvements... thoughts?
    22
    Carb'd 351w for that extra 'murica factor
    18.18%
    4
    LS(whatever), because it's 2014 asshole
    27.27%
    6
    Turbo dart block ford and make it raaaaaaaaiiiiiinnnnnn on summitracing.com
    31.82%
    7
    Bro, save your money, tear what you've got down and rebuild
    22.73%
    5
    Last edited by jalopi; 07-15-2014, 10:44 AM.

    #2
    Just boost a dart block but spread the engine build over a few months to make the spending seem less apparent in your bank account.

    http://www.theturboforums.com/ has everything you will need but you probably know that already and on the topic of intercooler: the air to waters are always great alternatives but if you plan on running a low boost application(under 10psi) you don't need an intercooler because the gas flowing from the carb sufficiently cools the air before it gets to the cylinders. Also timing is key! but you already knew that as well. :up:

    Comment


      #3
      No 347 N/A option?

      Can't those hit 400 WHP or so with the right heads/intake/cam combo? And a lot cheaper/easier than turbo...

      Comment


        #4
        The reason I really don't like the 347s is, well, this:



        347 piston on the left, 332 on the right. That wrist pin placement... so sketchy, at least to me anyway.

        But yeah, I'm leaning towards the dart turbo build. Need more power. Don't want to have to rely on the e-brake to break the rear tires loose.... which I would've had to on this one long sweeper at summit if my e-brake handle hadn't broken. That was with 235's and I'm thinking about stepping up to 255s or something. Definitely need more powah

        Comment


          #5
          Stroke it.
          sigpic

          Comment


            #6
            347, plenty out there living happy lives and love you long time.
            sigpic

            Comment


              #7
              That's not sketchy this only into the oil land rings sketchy is into the lower compression ring, and I've seen that done...

              I vote a nice built 347 N/A or turbo...

              Look it will use all the same shit you already have A+

              There proven power builds A+

              Saves weight over 351, yes torque motor, but lets face it, the 351 was a truck motor and never intended to be a HP motor... yes you car throw money and make power.. but why if you don't have too... A+

              A good built 347 can rev....! for track this is an A+

              A 351 is what a 1" more on deck height? will this be an issue with exhaust or under the hood in the e30?

              My Vote a nice sorted 347 with oil baffling or dry sump!!!!!!
              https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar...re-irs.356333/

              This Forum is built on love, and powered by Sexual Tension!

              When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

              Comment


                #8
                A 347 would bolt in place of what you have now and you wouldn't need to make anything.

                383 & 400 Chevies with 6" rods use interrupted oil ring lands like that. They run long and hard.

                Also, you can mitigate the gap in the oil ring land by getting more modern (< 3 mm) oil rings. Those pistons look like they're cut for flat head oil rings or some things else from the stone age.

                And even 332's another half liter over what you're running now... ;-)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ls3?


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                  Comment


                    #10


                    Come on Dave.

                    Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I see you've got a sweet ass catch can like I do, lol

                      On a different note, are you still missing one of the bolts for your drivers' side camber plate? Cuz that's a little sketch.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        it's got 3. Only came with 3 :)

                        Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Dart block is the coolest option. Ls will be the streight forword option. 351 will be lame comparitively

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The ls swap will be more expensive. But still an awesome option. I had everything ready to go for an ls6, something stopped me from wanting to mutt up my car. Really hold nothing against it. Dunno why I got gun shy about starting that swap.

                            Ended up starting an m60 swap instead. Hopefully one day I go forced induction with a sleeved block.

                            In your position go dart block and forced induction down the road.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                              the ls swap will be more awesome. But still an awesome option.
                              ftfy

                              Status: HG repair. 488wtq though!

                              Comment

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