M6X swap boosterless brake setup

[Madhatter]

Is the cable in the way? you can get 90 degree fittings for the cable fitment to position it better if you think that will give you clearance.

[P Arkus]

Bumping an old thread. Posted my question in the brakes section but not sure if anyone knows.

Has anyone successfully run the garagistic pedal mount with wilwood pedals, AND run a remote balance bar cable adjuster? I'm planning on doing this with my swap, but when I attach the adjuster cable it doesnt allow the brakes to engage properly which means I would need to cut a good chunk of the garagistic pedal mount. Not sure how severly that would effect the structural integrity of the pedal mount but i'm sure it cant be the best thing.

Anyone have a better idea of how to mount it?

[dothadance]

Does anybody have the garagistic delete and still have abs? I'm plumbing lines right now and I'm not sure how to adjust my bias bar. I don't know which pipe goes to where.

[ncrmtrsprtsE30]

i like this.. does anyone know if the Chase Bays boosterless in bay setup will work? http://www.chasebays.com/chase-bays-...-euro-chassis/

[P Arkus]

Great link! Thanks!!!

[jalopi]

http://www.jakelatham.com/radical/info/brake_calculators.shtml

for all your brake force calculation needs

[P Arkus]

Good to know. I'm planning on going with the IE 310mm BBK F&R, and running the Garagistic pedal bracket with Wilwood pedals. Will need to do a bit more research here on the pedal ratio, but it sounds like a 5/8th would do the trick nicely.

[iflytii]

Is anyone running a boosterless setup with a BBK? What MC sizes are you using and how do you like it?

My current street car uses 996/brembo front and rears, and I've settled on 5/8" FT, 3/4" R.

My racecar has Massive 6 piston front, and 4 piston Wilwood calipers. I'm running 13/16" square on it, but I have a more favorable pedal ratio of 6.2:1 on that car (firewall mount) vs the 5.5 (+/-) setup on my street car (overhung mount).

I've also helped setup several guys, mostly using e36/M calipers and varying pedal lengths, lots of variables.

Pedal ratio is as important as MC size on your setup, so take that into consideration. I've always thought the 6.2:1 overhung pedals were too long as they are pretty close to the floor. The 5.1-5.5 overhung pedals yield a stiffer pedal so going with a smaller MC makes those more comfortable for daily driving. The newish 600 series Tilton overhead pedals have an adjustable ratio of 5.1 to 6.2 so you can actually tweak things a bit for pedal feel and location.

As far as feedback goes, I love the feel. My racecar is flat out awesome, and while the street pads aren't quite as impressive, the overall feel is still very good on my street car. The street car needs a little more effort but my wife can drive the car without any issues. I'm sure more aggressive pads would help the street setup a bit.

[jalopi]

i had e46 330i brakes, front and rear, with a 5/8" master on a massive booster delete plate. before the 330i brakes the car required a decent amount of effort to stop and i wasn't the biggest fan

after the 330i swap it felt like OE boosted brakes again

[P Arkus]

Is anyone running a boosterless setup with a BBK? What MC sizes are you using and how do you like it?

[iflytii]

Get a remote bias adjuster. It bolts on to the end of the balance bar and you can make adjustments with a knob.

Ditto on the remote bias adjuster, makes life much easier!


I don't know if the garagistic version of the pedal mount will accommodate access for the cable. The original plans for the pedal mount that circulated way back when did not, and I'm fairly certain that is what the garagistic mount is based from. I know they have refined their product since so I can't answer for them, but it's a good question to ask before ordering if you go that direction. You have to remove some material on the right side of the mount so if that lack of material wasn't compensated for I wouldn't just cut away after the fact.

Anyone have any problem with the regular sized mc's? I seem to recall seeing a video of some dudes needing the smaller mc's in order to fit.

Kevinb how did you use that size mc?

As mentioned, compact master cylinders are really needed. The Wilwood offerings are good. If you want to run banjo fittings, and have something a little neater than the remote reservoir plastic adapter you can look at the Tilton 76 series master cylinders.

http://tiltonracing.com/product/76-series-master-cylinders/

They are more expensive, but they give you the option to use banjo fittings for a tidy install.

[dothadance]

I've had a few people ask me what parts I used on my boosterless brake setup for my M62 swap, so I figured I'd write something.

I've heard from a couple different people that the Massive Booster Delete will not work well. I haven't tried it myself, but even with this setup with dual brake masters, I can imagine why it wouldn't.

All of this information can be found on Garagistic's website at

http://store.garagistic.com/ocart/bmw-e30-parts/bmw-motor-swap/e30-boosterless-brake-setup

For the people not looking to research, here is the parts list I used.

-Wilwood Pedal Box: Wilwood part number 340-11299
-Wilwood 5/8 Brake Master (need 2): Wilwood part number 260-3372
-Wilwood 3/4 Clutch Master: Wilwood part number 260-3374
-Garagistic Pedal Box Mount: Found on this link listed above.
-Braided steel brake lines: Use whatever ones you'd like
-Custom brake lines from the masters to the braided lines on the calipers

Things I've found:

-I ended up with a 5/8 master for the clutch with is TOO SMALL. The adjustable pedals on the box make it work, but there is A TON of travel and the clutch engages right off the floor. Garagistic now recommends a 3/4 master for the clutch. I feel like you could also run a 13/16 or a 7/8 if you want abrupt engagement with very little pedal travel. That's up to you. Just stay away from the 5/8.

-If you aren't using a stock slave cylinder like a Wilwood unit or something, just size it however they recommend.

-When I bought the pedal box mount almost 2 years ago, there was a slight fitment issue with the holes and they had to be moved a bit. I'm sure they've fixed it now. Install is not fun at all. It will be MUCH easier with the dash removed. However, I did it with the dash in. It's possible, but it sucks.

-When setting up the adjustable pedals, the brake will need to be farther out than you'd want or expect. Since the brake masters are small and you have no booster, hydraulics says you need to compensate with lots of travel if you want a decent force. The clutch is adjustable with your fingers and a skinny needle nose pliers, but the brake pedal is not. This is the worst part about the setup. You'll need to remove the box several times to get the adjustment right. The more the brake pedal sticks out, the better. You have quite a bit of travel before the brakes start to grab.

-Go with braided lines. Without a booster, you need all the help you can get. Regular rubber lines have some flex with just takes away from your already limited braking power. No rubber lines.

-Find a way to secure your adjustment bars. Over time, the nuts will start to back out slightly with vibrations and the pedals will get closer to the floor. Not good.

-I remotely mounted the 3 reservoirs in the engine bay and ran the rubber lines to the masters through the hole that the booster left. With this, you're going to want to find a way to fill the rest of that hole. Hot air blows past the header and warms your feet and legs very nicely.


-If you're using a cable throttle you have to cut the pedal linkage a bit. Garagistic gives you instructions for that. It's not hard.

-I'd recommend using large brakes and/or aggressive pads with this setup. I'm running stock brakes at the moment and emergency stops get dicey.

I'm sure there are many other ways that probably work, but this is what I'm running and this is what I've found.

Kevinb how did you use that size mc?

[garagistic]

Anyone have any problem with the regular sized mc's? I seem to recall seeing a video of some dudes needing the smaller mc's in order to fit.

You must have the compact series master cylinders. We are wilwood distributors so PM us your needs.

[dothadance]

Anyone have any problem with the regular sized mc's? I seem to recall seeing a video of some dudes needing the smaller mc's in order to fit.

[36brua]

have you got the fronts to the point where they lock up all the time? what size cylinders did you go with? if you are really struggling, you might have to change master cylinder sizes for the fronts.

Hi Wilwood 5/8" masters F/R. fronts will lock, rears are 'grabbing' but barely.
All new components pad/discs, rebuilt calipers pads are 'stk' Jurid. Have about 100 + miles now and rear discs are still showing original surface finish w/ some scuffing. pretty sure the bias is way out. testing on gravel surface fronts lock ( and on pavement) rear not even close to locking. ABS systemis installed. Should have installed bias adjuster from get go thks