Resurrected Topic: Vanos vs. Non-vanos

[rwh11385]

--european car's BMW Tech Letters--

BMW Cam Swap
Do 1996-99 M3 cams work in the M50 engine?

We spoke with Pete McHenry of Precision Performance in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. McHenry is a well-known expert on BMW engine swaps and parts interchangeability. He advises: The M50 2.5-liter VANOS cams are 228-degree duration, while S53 3.2-liter M3 cams are 252 intake and 240 exhaust. They fit fine and give a nice boost to the top end on a 2.5-liter M50. You can use the S52 cams with the M50 lifters and springs. The S52 uses smaller lifters (33mm vs. 35mm diameter) and conical valve springs with teeny retainer washers. Net saving with this stuff is 20 grams per valve. Get the S52 cam trays, lifters and springs if you can but the swap is OK with cams only as mentioned earlier. If you have a 1992 M50, you can switch the intake cam to the exhaust. Timing is 240 on both, but the intake has 9.7 lift vs. 9.0. Buy a 252 Schrick intake cam and you have the same cams as an M3 and only have to buy one camshaft.
--Mike Miller

Alright, so everyone knows that M3 cams go in M50TU, and TMS offers a chip tuned to take advantage of them. If you have a M50 (non-vanos), with 252/240 or 256 / 240 timing, what are your options for chips? The plain M50 TMS one?

I'm asking because I'm looking into engines for sale. I of course, like the ease of M3 cams, but Schrick 252 or 256 would also work.

The cams are long down the road, but they depend on the choices I must make sooner. That choice is what engine to get.

Stu recommended jumping on a complete engine with all the accessories and wiring harness. I found this:

m50 motor from a 92 325i. Comes with intake and exhaust manifolds, trottle body, all acc(ps, ac, alt), air meter, wiring harness made to fit 87+ e30s, DME/ECU with conforti chip, starter and light weight single mass BMW flywheel(can use e30 m3 clutch with it). Motor runs well and has about 100k miles. Makes an awesome swap into an e30! Asking $1,000. Shipping available from TX or pickup and save $100.

I've emailed the guy just now seeing if its still available. I also asked if he by chance could put on a 525 oil pan. But everything seems to be there, and low miles, and fair price. (And TMS chip already!)

[whakiewes]

I have ridden in both modded. With bolt on's on my 92 non-vanos 325is, I stay within a half a car length with my friend 93' 325is with a semi-built head and M3 cams. He has the same bolt on's I do. We never got to race before he had his head done. I pulled on him decently in my E30 M3 though with his stock engine, so I figure I would have come close to pulling on him with my 325is. I might also add that I was racing with bald Dunlop W-10 tires and a shot clutch. We raced from a stand still and a 10-20mph punch. Both times he pulled on me about a half a car length to 100. I think quite a bit of it has to do with his redline of 7500 vs. mine of 7000.

Wes

[Bavarian3]

Are you sure your not thinking about comparing OBDI to OBDII systems?

Vanos systems push out more HP. In the European touring series, they make the faster cars disable their vanos, which gives the other teams a bigger advantage.

I was speaking with a friend of mine who was removing vanos from a Euro 3.2, in conjunction with bigger cams and an engine mangement systems. Though, they had countless problems with the engine, since not many (only PTG) knows the low down on this.

[Rob]

robert, i'd be weary of that motor unless you can get some comp numbers and maintainence records

[rwh11385]

robert, i'd be weary of that motor unless you can get some comp numbers and maintainence records

yeah, I'm not looking into that engine any longer. Was it you, or someone else who was asking for details and only got "runs well".

I'm actually no longer wanting a M50 swap.....too much $$$ for just the engine. E30's deserve much more than just a powerful motor: suspension, brakes, wheels/tires, transmission. I want a Sparco front strut brace, will probably need brakes sometime, a Z3 2.8 shift lever, etc. etc. I already have an "i", so I'm going to put it to use and focus on other aspects of my ride. Oh well. :roll:

As far as this thread, I would enjoy it continuation, if anyone has anything else to add about their options of vanos/non-vanos.

I believe that stock speaking, vanos has waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles cams (228 duration I believe, instead of 240). But put in M3 cams, and then a vanos motor is a beast. It also provides better gas mileage. But then again on a fully built motor, vanos would just add weight and the driver would never leave vanos, so the retarded stage is worthless.

[Rob]

yeah that was me. I inquired as soon as it popped up on roadfly. I mean, it could be on the up and up, but there's enough decent m50s around that I'd pass on one i wasnt pretty sure about.


as for vanos-non-vanos, I've heard (heresay, so who knows) that the non-V motors pull a little better up top, but this could be because they lack the low end

[Charlie]

General consensus is that the non-vanos motors pull better at high RPM's. If you're serious about building a motor, that might be a good starting point.

-Charlie

[rwh11385]

as for vanos-non-vanos, I've heard (heresay, so who knows) that the non-V motors pull a little better up top, but this could be because they lack the low end

yeah, that's how to works. The longer the duration, the higher up the revs the power will be. So the non-vanos with its hot cams sacrifice low end torque for high end power. Look at long-duration cams for the m20, like 288, real weak low end, but the top end screams. Hence, vtec's invention.....but I don't have to tell you about it......you've come from that camp! Anyway, mild cams to make torque low, and hot cams to make HP high.