Apex S-AFC II engine mgmt.

[RCWells]

Anybody familiar with or know anything about Apex and engine management? Looking into an engine management setup and need input/advice. This is a system that was recommended by one shop that I've spoken with about dyno tuning and I am wondering if anyone else knows of or has had experience with this or similar system.

http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_electronics_detail.asp?id=202&pageNum=1

Thanks.

[Bavarian3]

Okay.... since no one shat on your thread yet, I am going to post some useful (well maybe) information... and questions.

First why do you need an E.M setup? Is the Bosch motronic not up to par? Most E.M setups are for two things. Turbos and high adjustablility. Both of which are good things....

I didn't read into the Apex system. I don't know if it is a piggyback or if it is a standalone... but look into other options and ask your self do you really need it? Maybe you need a custom GIAC chip burned...

I believe a lot of those Apex systems are used on VTECH models because they can adjust when VTECH kicks in (I suppose).... you don't find many BMW owners running such models... mostly MOTEC, MAXX, LINK, etc...

I am not too sure either if the Apex allows you to remove the AFM and replace it with a MAP/MAF sensor....

EFI and E.M are fun topics to discuss but we are talking about a close to stock M20 engine.... (from what I've read in the past)... the problem with the M20 are three things. The AFM, the SOHC issue and the intake manifold. Once you figure out what you want to do with those issues (IE: M50 route) then you look into options for EM if you really need it (IE: Running a euro S50 motor but with locked VANOS).

This post probably did not make any sense... but hope it helps a bit.

[rs4pro3]

the Apexi is a piggy back airfuel ratio controler, not full engine management.

[RCWells]

It is a piggyback, and what you said did make some sense.

It's just been recommended that I use some sort of a piggyback to properly "tune" with all of the mods that have been done. Yes, it is still an M20 with stock internals, but the external mods done, according to some, require modification of the A/F ratio and the only way to "properly" tune is with some engine management system as the stock ECU will NOT accomplish this alone.

????

[rs4pro3]

Ya the Apexi, will work fine for what you need, so will a SMT-6, or many other piggybacks out there. FYI you'll probally want to invest in a Wide band O2 sensor also.

[Budget Beater]

here is a great link for the Apexi SAFC-2, I will be buying it later this month so i can start fine tuning my car.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/269576/5

[f u z z]

Okay....
I believe a lot of those Apex systems are used on VTECH models because they can adjust when VTECH kicks in (I suppose).... you don't find many BMW owners running such models... mostly MOTEC, MAXX, LINK, etc...
.

That would be the VAFC that the honda guys use with VTEC. The SAFC is just air fuel.

[silversleeper]

So from what I was able to gather from this thread, it is possibly to "tune" the M20 with a SAFC? Say in my case, where I am running 19lbs injectors, MarkD, and M30 AFM? In theory I should be able to get it to run smoothly with just this? And what is the deal with the wideband O2 thing? Can someone briefly explain that?

[Budget Beater]

basically its like having custom tuned chip for your car on the fly. You can change it at any time but it is recommend u get it tuned with a wideband O2 (aka dyno tune it). you can use it on top of your Mark D chip for an even more aggressive tune.

[rwh11385]

So from what I was able to gather from this thread, it is possibly to "tune" the M20 with a SAFC? Say in my case, where I am running 19lbs injectors, MarkD, and M30 AFM? In theory I should be able to get it to run smoothly with just this? And what is the deal with the wideband O2 thing? Can someone briefly explain that?

So throw $200 on a piggy back and $300 on a wideband, just to make a 2hp gain?

Stop being silly. Install an AFPR if you are fucking with the a/f in an attempt to make gains, and then get on a dyno to adjust the fuel pressure and afm settings. That's what Dave did, and that's fair enough for my tastes.

Or sell your chip if its Jim Conforti and buy a chip from MarkD burned with the injectors and AFM you have in mind. If you already have a chip from MarkD, see if you can't upgrade for a fee.



sidenote: when I go into KP and do the mods allowed and such, like the M30 AFM sitting on my shelf.... I'll have Mark burn me a custom chip for that particular application.

...better than fiddling with a SAFC on the highway as an amateur and thinking I'm upping my horsepower and doing it right.... although paying someone $100 to tune the SAFC on a dyno is actually un-R3Vlike

Go to the library and see if they have a book on Bosch engine management:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/083...lance&n=283155
Or hell, buy both these books, and might end up saving money down the road, and understanding what is going on: Buy this book with How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection by Ben Watson today! Buy Together Today: $33.34


Bottom line is it will do you really no good except something nice, blue, and shiny without a wideband 02 sensor or an intelligent user and good tuning. Either read up and pay for dyno time, or pay someone else to.

But fuck, surely installing the AFPR and getting it dynoed and being friendly with the shop owner and tuning it yourself/having him help is cheaper, easier, and will be good enough for just fucking bigger injectors, honed manifold, and bigger AFM. I "tuned" my car, i.e. stop it from being so fucking lean, while just paying for a regular 3 runs because it took barely any time and I'm cool with the shop. Someone else there that day took like 6 runs when paid for 3, and messed with his Superchip controller and swapped our the Jets on his NOS for bigger ones.

[rwh11385]

of course, the first step might be to just throw down some cash and check to see if even your A/F curves is alright or not before saving and spending hundreds of dollars

if everything is alright, then you can sell the AFPR and just keep as is
if not, call it a baseline

[mspiegle]

If you're technically inclined and want to learn more about engine management, then give it a shot. I personally feel that any piggyback is the easiest way to get into playing around with engine management.

If you want something that will be cheaper, easier, and not have to fiddle with much, then get the AFPR. You'll set it once, and forget about it.

[Bavarian3]

"That would be the VAFC that the honda guys use with VTEC. The SAFC is just air fuel."

Thanks...

Even though I agree with getting the car tuned... I have to disagree to have it tuned only on a Dyno.. That is when the main problem comes in place (knowledge of the system and how to tune correctly)

I have to agree with what Heeter said and just get a custom chip for the car instead of wasting the money on a EM if your not going to take FULL advantage of it.

[silversleeper]

Install an AFPR if you are fucking with the a/f in an attempt to make gains, and then get on a dyno to adjust the fuel pressure and afm settings.

I read Daves write up and all. I would like to take the same route, but I dont quite understand the tuning of the AFM. Are you talking bout poppin off the cover and letting the dyno peeps tinker with the AFM spring tension in addition to adjusting the AFPR?

[rwh11385]

I'm sure you handle it yourself. Just pull a little on the dyno and see where the A/F is, then adjust the spring tension until it's good. I did this myself without even remembering which way enrichened the mix. (thought it out, and made the correct guess)

Remember too that idle is gonna be determined too by the idle setting on the AFM, and check the A/F under load at rpm's when you do so.