Did I Buy A Lemon?

[HooptE30]

Hopefully im posting this in the right thread area, anyways...

Yesterday I bought my first e30. Its a Schwartz Black 325is, clean title, OG interior (other than dynamat on the floors and new headliner). First things first, check under the hood; Everything looks in working order, nothing out of the ordinary for a car of its age. Drove it around, later established that the steering pump high pressure hose is pissing all over the side of the engine block. Got the guy down on price and settled at 5150 for it assuming the odometer was correct at 124k miles because thats what the add listed and the guy implied was the current mileage. We get driving and I check the dash just to see if anything was in their and found a service record from this year.... Car has 225k miles on it. At that point I was pretty heated since this was my first e30 and it had nearly double what it was suppose to have. Now i know the blocks themselves on these things are pretty bullet proof if maintained properly, granted the head looked almost brand new when i looked inside and the car pulled and ran good for the most part (no idling issues either), however im still concerned knowing the car has that many miles on it. From what ive been able to assess, im going to need to fix the steering pump hose unless I just delete it, and i noticed a slight faint hum while driving it on the freeway after about an hour or so. Also found out the gas gauge needs to be tampered with after the needle just about had a seizure. Wishfull thinking on the gas mileage I guess. But Im really hoping its not the tranny or diff going out. The hum is only audible when accelerating; when it coast in gear the sound goes away. Not sure if its the clutch fan, low fuel, ect. I know im going to have to invest time and work into the car (if i decide to keep it... or have to); I was hoping to get it cherry for around 1.5-2.5k invested. Hoping you guys can tell me if I did okay based of the info given, or I just made a really bad deal.

[LateFan]

A lemon is round with two pointy ends on it and it's usually bright yellow. A lime, however, is similar in shape but is almost always bright green.

Everyone will lecture you on paying a fairly tall price for an unknown car without having it checked over thoroughly, or doing it yourself. Compression? Fuel pressure? Clutch? Switches and lights all work? ***Has anyone changed the timing belt and tensioners?? All the basics, before going off paying over 5k for a 30 year old car.

So...a 30 year old car has 30 year old rubber on it and most of it will need to be changed. There may be vacuum leaks due to cracked intake boots, gaskets, hoses.... If it idles smoothly, you're lucky, unless someone has done all the rubber recently.

I think most will chime in here to say there's nothing wrong with 225k on an i if it was maintained. Are there any records, any receipts, any idea where it's been? 124k on a 30 yr old car is like a freebie, not likely. If it DID have only 124k, that means it sat at some point, which is just as bad as high miles - all the rubber and gaskets have dried out, hoses are brittle, etc.

Search here for diagnostic lists from The Great Jim Levie (user jlevie) and you will learn a lot.

Buy the Bentley service manual and go through the diagnostics chapter and you will learn a lot.

Others here are way better at this and will have a good sense of what kind of budget you need to get it up to snuff and reliable.

My old friend the Norwegian Volvo mechanic always said: "Drive it until it breaks, then you know what's wrong."

Good luck!

[efficient]

buying these old cars with no documentation of any service records is iffy because someone can swap out the clusters with a lower mileage one.
The humming could be the differential, center support bearing, bearings, tranny.
For the bouncing around gas gauge take the cluster out and clean the little nut behind the cluster, it's a ground and sometimes a dirty/ loose nut can cause erratic readings. If you did that and it's still going crazy you probably need new battery for the si board in the dash.
I'd suggest changing the timing belt as one of the first things to do.

[Cephas]

I'm betting you are just dealing with buyer's remorse over the decision to pick up the car.

Do the timing belt right away as has been said.

Also, it doesn't sound like a lemon to me. Is the mileage accurate? Doesn't sound like it, but I'd guess at least 7 out of 10 e30's don't have the correct mileage (probably higher). The whine could be anything, but if you didn't notice it until an hour of freeway driving then it's not that bad.

The gas gauge as has been said, is most likely the grounding plane nut on the back of the cluster.

Got any pics of the car?

Also, I'd say that buying these old cars without services records is super common. How many enthusiasts take the time to notate every oil change, control arm replacement etc? Not many. I know that people here make build threads and love taking pics while they are working, but that's not my style at all (I wish it was as I love reading those threads though!) and I'm sure it's not many people's style in general. I've done tons of maintenance to my e30 and haven't taken a single pic while doing it. So I wouldn't stress at all that they didn't have a huge book of service records. You look the car over the best you can and make a decision based off of that.

[HooptE30]

Everyone will lecture you on paying a fairly tall price for an unknown car without having it checked over thoroughly, or doing it yourself. Compression? Fuel pressure? Clutch? Switches and lights all work? ***Has anyone changed the timing belt and tensioners?? All the basics, before going off paying over 5k for a 30 year old car.

So...a 30 year old car has 30 year old rubber on it and most of it will need to be changed. There may be vacuum leaks due to cracked intake boots, gaskets, hoses.... If it idles smoothly, you're lucky, unless someone has done all the rubber recently.

I think most will chime in here to say there's nothing wrong with 225k on an i if it was maintained. Are there any records, any receipts, any idea where it's been? 124k on a 30 yr old car is like a freebie, not likely. If it DID have only 124k, that means it sat at some point, which is just as bad as high miles - all the rubber and gaskets have dried out, hoses are brittle, etc.

Thanks for the reply, Im actually fortunate enough to have an amazing e30 mechanic up the street. Im hoping to have him take a look at it when he can.

In reguards to the clutch and compression, the head was recently rebuilt and the clutch felt fairly new as well. Didnt have an exact number for compression but the guy vouged it was to spec (for whatever thats worth). The seller had a mechanic come and inspect it as well and most everything checked out other than the power steering leak. The rubber on the intake and main hoses were replaced along with a newer OEM MAF. The timing belt looked relatively new and everything felt snug as it should. The guy also put in a shortshifter with new bushings. The lights all work but i need to fix something with the back passenger side turn signal, it flashes a little to quickly.

Additionally the break lining light is on so im likely going to go and deal with that after the power steering. The guy who sold it to me buys and sells bmw's and purchased from the previous owner in SoCal. No service records or anything was really passed along other than the previous owners name and a paper in the dash for an oil change.

Thanks again for the info and tips!

[HooptE30]

buying these old cars with no documentation of any service records is iffy because someone can swap out the clusters with a lower mileage one.
The humming could be the differential, center support bearing, bearings, tranny.
For the bouncing around gas gauge take the cluster out and clean the little nut behind the cluster, it's a ground and sometimes a dirty/ loose nut can cause erratic readings. If you did that and it's still going crazy you probably need new battery for the si board in the dash.
I'd suggest changing the timing belt as one of the first things to do.

Yeah i fell like that's what happened with me. Im really hoping thats not what the humming is though, but i guess ill know once i have it looked at professionally :???: Thanks for advice on the gauge, ill go ahead and take a look at that today!

[Cephas]

The brake lining light is going to be super simple. There is a sensor that no one replaces that gets chewed up when it's time to replace the pads. A few bucks and 2 new sensors and you're probably fine. I've seen some e30's where shade-tree mechanics put a paper clip in them to complete the circuit and shut off the light. Please don't do that, just get the sensor.

Enjoy the car!

[Mlarsen]

Lemon laws only apply to new cars, you just made a bad deal.

[HooptE30]

I'm betting you are just dealing with buyer's remorse over the decision to pick up the car.

Do the timing belt right away as has been said.

Also, it doesn't sound like a lemon to me. Is the mileage accurate? Doesn't sound like it, but I'd guess at least 7 out of 10 e30's don't have the correct mileage (probably higher). The whine could be anything, but if you didn't notice it until an hour of freeway driving then it's not that bad.

The gas gauge as has been said, is most likely the grounding plane nut on the back of the cluster.

Got any pics of the car?

Also, I'd say that buying these old cars without services records is super common. How many enthusiasts take the time to notate every oil change, control arm replacement etc? Not many. I know that people here make build threads and love taking pics while they are working, but that's not my style at all (I wish it was as I love reading those threads though!) and I'm sure it's not many people's style in general. I've done tons of maintenance to my e30 and haven't taken a single pic while doing it. So I wouldn't stress at all that they didn't have a huge book of service records. You look the car over the best you can and make a decision based off of that.

You're probably right about that one, i just felt business was done slighlty unprofessionally in a way. The guy offered up services in the future, but im not sure how convenient they'd be if i decide to take advantage of that.

Yeah i searched the forum and couldnt find anything saying EXACTLY what it was. Im probably going to do some preventative maintenace when everything under the hood starts to get changed out just to be on the safe side i.e. water pump, serpentine belt, ect.

Only of 2 exterior photos that were on the original post, ill put them up in a sec. Might take pics today of interior and such.

And yes I agree with you there. I wasnt expecting a 26 year old car to have an extensive service history report, if any. However, it's always nice to have to see whats been done as an extra selling point. Anyhow im stuck with the car now so hopefully I dont run into to many (costly) issues right off the back. I was thinking about a build thread as well, although it might be more of maintenace one right now :p I have plans of tuning the car when I get it in tip top shape, maybe even forced induction way down the line and many $$$ spent after everything else is done. we all have dreams, right? :)

[HooptE30]

The brake lining light is going to be super simple. There is a sensor that no one replaces that gets chewed up when it's time to replace the pads. A few bucks and 2 new sensors and you're probably fine. I've seen some e30's where shade-tree mechanics put a paper clip in them to complete the circuit and shut off the light. Please don't do that, just get the sensor.

Enjoy the car!

HAHA a paperclip?? But yeah id definetly be doing it the right way, I dont mind spending a little extra for something like that if its done right.

Thanks for the advice!

[HooptE30]

Lemon laws only apply to new cars, you just made a bad deal.

Not according to BBB;) But do you actually thing it was a bad deal on my part after reading the post?

[LateFan]

we all have dreams, right? :)

Well that looks pretty darn clean from this far away.

We lucked out - ours was only $1000 and didn't run, but it was a dry CA car, and had dealer service stamps in the book all the way up through 140k miles - we're at 175 now. But we've done a lot of work to it, and replaced some systems.

[HooptE30]

Well that looks pretty darn clean from this far away.

We lucked out - ours was only $1000 and didn't run, but it was a dry CA car, and had dealer service stamps in the book all the way up through 140k miles - we're at 175 now. But we've done a lot of work to it, and replaced some systems.

Thanks! she needs paint though in the future after i get her running better. There's some small buffing spots and touch up in some areas around the car. Im lucky that the car has remained in CA as well, the plates are original from 1990. Matching vins all around too which is nice

[IronJoe]

You may want to check your local state laws, but it is illegal for the seller misrepresent the mileage of the vehicle. If it was found to be the case that the odometer was tampered with/replaced and the actual vehicle mileage is not as stated, you may be entitled to a buyback.

Definitely check this out further.

[HooptE30]

You may want to check your local state laws, but it is illegal for the seller misrepresent the mileage of the vehicle. If it was found to be the case that the odometer was tampered with/replaced and the actual vehicle mileage is not as stated, you may be entitled to a buyback.

Definitely check this out further.

Will do! This is exactly what i was curious about as well. I even signed the title saying it had 124k so there would be no discrepancy about the mileage being falsely reported now.