build a 100% ethanol powered 318

[ptownTSI]

Since there are so many 318's with M10's in junkyards I think I would like to make an engine to run on 100% or E85 ethanol.

the engine would be the M10, milled block zero quench deck height, 13:1 compression and a small turbo to increase mid range power. I think it can be done with ethanols very high octane rating.

ideally my goal would be to show that this is feasible and sell out in a venture capital fashion to some large company.

realistically, it would be cool to say you drive a car thats powered by corn, or orangpeels, sugarbeets, molasses or soybeans, or whatever the hell else you turn into ethanol.
ethanol from corn can be made at a cost of only $1.05/gallon based on corn prices from 2005. so if it was california you would have 36 cents a gallon tax on it, and 7.5% sales tax. plus transportation costs of the ethanol by truck, say another 5% of the cost of the fuel.

so thats $1.60 a gallon.

I could go with biodiesel, but bmw didnt' make many of them over here, and vw diesels from the 80's look like, uhm...shit.

[AndrewBird]

So you want to modify an M10, turbo it and still have less HP then stock? :)

[ptownTSI]

the point is to make a car that runs on ethanol. i don't think it would have less power at all. ever heard of "alcohol" dragsters, similiar idea.

[volgapower]

nice... but
why?

[ptownTSI]

because i'm going to have money then, and don't you think having an ethanol powered car is cool? its the same idea with driving a biodiesel car so you can put on the side "powered by grease" or something. ethanol is cheaper to make per acre grown compared to soybeans which are made into biodiesel. biodiesel is great, but commercially even if you recycled every kitchens grease into biodiesel i dont think it could be viable.

i guess i'm just a kooky inventor wanna-be type.

[Mike325]

because i'm going to have money then,

i guess i'm just a kooky inventor wanna-be type.

LOL, men with too much money. You must be single. Not saying single is bad, just single guys have money.

[KenC]

Do it to mine.

So you want it to run on 100% EtOH? At the beginning of the post, you said E85... but the rest of the text seems to imply that you want it to be E100.

[325ise30]

I almost posted this very same idea, I just finished my term paper on the subject so have I some fresh info on it. There will actually be a power increase due to the fact that e85 is 105 octane and e100 is around 110 octane. There is less btu’s so your mpg’s will decrease 15-25%, but ethanol has a higher thermal efficiency than gas so your hp will increase. The key to an ethanol car is timing and compression, that’s where Saabs method really comes into play because they use a turbo so they really take advantage of the octane. You can expect a 10-20% increase in hp on a properly tuned engine, there will be a decrease in mpgs, but in Saabs case mostly in the city and some clam an increase in mpgs on the highway. I have plans on building a micro ethanol plant just for fun, and also thought a turbo 318is would be the way to go, but make it have to fuel cells and the ability to run on gas if needed. Good luck, don’t expect any companies getting interested its all been done and is very well patented and trademarked. end of rant…..

[Axxe]

So you want to modify an M10, turbo it and still have less HP then stock? :)

Um, it would make a lot more power. At school we built up a stock silverado from an output of 190 hp to 310 hp, just by milling heads and advancing ignition. Freeflow intake and exhaust of course.

[ptownTSI]

yeah, well like I said it would just be cool to do. you can make ethanol at home...moonshine essentially. moonshine has trouble getting to 200proof which is ethanol.

If there are people who have "patented" this why arent more doing it, all they need is someone to make an ethanol plant. they are spring up around the country. How do you "patent" raising an engines compression, adding a turbo, and upgrading the lines and fuel pump to handle alcohol.

Ultimately I'd say a far-fetched goal would be to offer/install ethanol conversions for cars. I'm not planning on quitting my day job, looking at some work with a few companies financial departments on graduation.

I would really like to build a race car and have that as my hobby, but work won't let me get away like i'd want. I can play around with an ethanol car any time.

[ptownTSI]

Do it to mine.

So you want it to run on 100% EtOH? At the beginning of the post, you said E85... but the rest of the text seems to imply that you want it to be E100.

Ideally I'd like to do E100, it has more of a "stick it to foreign oil" concept. If there is a way to have the car run on E85 or E100 I would like that.

to have multiple fueling abilities you would need to be able to lower timing significantly on the E85 car and/or boost as well. This can easily be done with Accel DFI.

I think if only one fuel was used you could use a flashed chip ecu.

[Axxe]

Actually, you can advance the timing if it's powered by E85, and reduce it when it's running on gasoline. That's how our Silverado runs, when using 94 octane pump gas, you just flip the switch to "pump gas" and it retards the timing to safe levels for gas. It also makes the mixture richer than with E85 to further prevent detonation. It's actually a pretty cool system, the electrical whizz kids did the management, the mech eng kids did the motor design.

[ivo316]

Cool idea, do some research on what Brazilians are doing, i went to Brazil some years ago and their cars run on alcohol, here's a link that you can read.

Regarding some drawbacks, the exhaust carries a lot of water, so you'll need stainless steel exhaust, and another is that you'll have to get used to the stink (these cars reek), other than that they run great, i've driven full acohol powered cars there and you can't tell the difference.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1007/p05s01-woam.html

The other alternative fuel widely used in latin America is compressed natural gas.

It pollutes very little, esentially methane, Divide by 2 the oxides production, Those cars do not emit toluene, xylene (cancer causes) the cars are three times more silent than a diesel, and without the black smoke.

Here you can find a site (in english) that sells natural gas kits.

http://www.bugatti.com.ar/

have fun !!.

[Axxe]

Used cooking oil works in diesels pretty good too. I'd want an old Benz 300d for a beater if I could live with the stink and constant mcdonalds runs for old cooking oil.

[Erick]

How much would it cost to build... and how long (assuming you'd daily drive it) until the gas savings will pay off the conversion?