Clutch problems. I dare you to figure this one out!

[lukasbmw]

A month ago I'm driving home on the freeway. I approach my offramp and attempt to take it out of 5th...it's stuck. WTF?

I slow to a stop (thank god it is late at night as I did not need an angry group of people behind me) and realize that even when the clutch is pushed down, the gearbox will not engage. I clutch and yank it out of 5th. I turn off the car. The gearbox will engage all 5 gears and reverse. I start the car with the car in 1st gear with the clutch pushed down. I release the clutch, give it some gas, and off I go. I notice that I can shift gears but only if I rev match. WTF

A few weeks earlier I had noticed some blue fluid in the middle of my car. I thought it was coolant and expected my heater core to blow. No I realize that it must have been clutch fluid (Super Blue).

I ask a friend (BMW Tech) what is wrong. He says a hydraulic clutch line is probably crimped and is leaking.

I take the car to a shop and ask them what is wrong. I hope that the problem is a leaking line as it will be easy for them to fix. They say they cannot find any exterior leaks and think the leak is coming from inside the tranny. They think it is the clutch slave cylinder. They can replace the slave cylinder and replace the clutch for $850.

Since I was planning on pulling the engine this summer anyway, I figure I'll just let the e30 sit.


The next day I find this article:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Clutch_Slave/E36-Clutch_Slave.htm

I'm such an idiot. I thought the slave cylinder was inside the tranny and so did the shop!

"A spongy feel to the clutch pedal, grinding of gears when shifting, long pedal travel, and hydraulic leaks under the car are all signs that one or more components of the system have failed"

Well I am definitely grinding gears when I do not rev match and there definitely is a leak under the car.


This weekend, a friend and I replaced the slave cylinder. No change. Same problem. WTF

Today I pull a used but working clutch master cylinder from an e30 in a bone yard and hook it up in my car after 5 hours of swearing. I re-bleed the system. Same problem. WTF


I ask another friend (BMW Tech) what could be wrong. He suggests the brake master cylinder. I point out that my brakes at great...if it was the brake master cylinder, my brakes would be sketchy.

Another friend suggests that the problem is with the clutch. If this were the case, I wouldn't be able to go anywhere at all. The car would rev but would not move. Additionally, the clutch still works (sort of) as when I am in gear at a light, I can press down the clutch and the car will not stall.

The leak did stop once the new slave cylinder was installed. But the problem persists.

Any ideas guys?


Summary:

I have clutch fluid under my car. One day, the hydraulic part of the clutch stops working.

I have replaced the clutch slave cylinder, clutch master cylinder and inspected all lines for leaks. The system has been bled 4 times. There are no longer nay leaks. My brakes are fine and I can still drive the car by starting it in gear with the clutch pressed in and rev matching into other gears.

So if it's not the clutch, not the slave cylinder, not the clutch master cylinder, not the brake master clyinder, and not a leaky line, WTF is the problem?

[MR 325]

How old is the clutch? How many miles on it?

[Dibo718]

Maybe if it doesnt have to do with clutch or tranny working, its your shifter linkage messing up some how? Or maybe your tranny is just shot to shit.

[RobertK]

The pivot arm could be out of alignment or come loose. Did you check to see if the pivot arm spring is still sticking out through both holes? If it came loose then the slave cylinder may not be hitting the pivot arm and of course not engaging the clutch.

Second.. Regardless if it has anything to do with the actual problem I suggest buying a NEW clutch master cylinder and possibly replace both lines in the process. I never use hydraulic parts from bone yard cars. You never know how many miles they have left before they puke on you.

[SchnellerVert]

I'm leaning with Robert. Sounds as though the clutch is not getting proper throw. Do you have a Rattle? and which transmission do you have?

[jlevie]

I see two possibilities. One is that the replacment master cylinder is bad, that you've installed the wrong slave cylinder, or there is air in the system. The other is that some part of the clutch itself has failed. The movement of the slave cylinder can be checked to see if there's full range of motion when depressing the clutch pedal. The internals of the clutch can only be checked after dropping the transmission.

[lukasbmw]

I'm running a 1995 M50 TU with a 1998 M3 tranny. The clutch and flywheel are e30 325i...this is a problem as the flywheel sits so close to the oil pan bolts, you actually need to remove the flywheel to take off the oil pan.

The clutch engagement point with this setup is also very low on the car.

BUT, I've had this setup for 3 or 4 years now with no problems until the leaking fluid. I'm positive I ordered the right slave cylinder and the clutch is 4 years old with maybe 40,000 miles.

At this point I do think it is best to just start over. I was planning on swapping in a stock e36 M3 flywhel and clutch when I throw in the 3.2 block. If the problem persists with the new clutch and flywheel, I'll invest in new lines and a new clutch master cylinder.

I need to change the clutch anyway, I may as well start there and see where it leads.

What are the chances my tranny is messed up?

[xLibelle]

tranny is good, clutch is good too.
if it were clutch lever, the pedal would stay on the floor and not return. also, it would have a different feel. easy check is to remove the slave and stick a screw driver in there to feel the lever. if you have the rear wheels in the air, crank it and check the lever and pressure plate action manually by hand. (by pushing on screwdriver.) (ps, DONT let the screwdriver slip off the lever while running)
since you just replaced your slave, then its either the master or the bleed.

[PeaveyBassist]

I say its not hydraulic related actually. I had the SAME problem in my e28. You could pull it out of gear, but not put it in ANY gear with the engine running. The clutch was part way engaged at all times, even with the pedal all the way to the floor. Changed the slave and bled, same problem. I ended up pulling the trans and changing the pressure plate and clutch fork (pivot arm, whatever you wanna call it) and now its fixed. Your pressure plate could be cracked on the friction surface, some of the fingers could be broken on it, or the fork could be bent, even if it doesnt look bent. If you take the trans out, change the clutch fork anyways. A brand new one is only $10.

Will

[Dibo718]

I was thinking and you said you could power shift but the clutch basically was useless... my brother brought up to me maybe its your clutch release bearing thats always a possibility especially if all your lines are good.

[RobertK]

You can definitely hear and feel a bad TO bearing.

[Sean]

We had this same problem on my mom's car - we could get it into gear from a STOP - but once moving, I had to revmatch, and the clutch was useless.

Took it to the dealer, they put in a new clutch, pressure plate - no more problem. We said we wanted the old one, but it looked like they grabbed a screwdriver and totally destroyed the edge of the clutch disc, since it was all frayed and crap.

But, we NEVER figured out with it was. However, it's most likely pressure plate related. Maybe one of the spring relases are bent, or the pivot arm is bent - could be any of this. Doesn't hurt to go new anyway, if its off, right?

[Ruffian]

I had a problem very similar. It turned out that I had installed the slave cylinder upside down. The bleeder valve should be pointing down to the ground. By inverting it, air was getting trapped in the slave valve.

Your first problem sounds like a blown seal in the clutch slave as you described fluid on the ground.

Just double check the slave. The reason I installed mine incorrectly was that it was incorrectly installed when I removed it, so I just followed suit.

[KangamangusDriver]

Does the clutch slip?

If fluid dripped onto the clutch, it would ruin it and make it unable to grab/create friction.

[winstontj]

Others have covered this pretty well BUT.... #1 you have a hydraulic leak (blut fluid under the car). Fix this. There are only a few places the fluid can be coming fromm and you need to find it and fix it. That leak needs to stop.

#2 - once the leak is stopped you need to make sure that your slave cylinder is actuating meaning the pushrod is pushing like it should be. If it is than it's something inside the bellhousing (somewhere between the crank & the throw out bearing) Could be clutch, PP, fwheel, or a combo of the three...