Lets talk downforce

[luTTz]

Seriously? You are looking at aero to fix an oversteer problem? Have you looked at changing your suspension settings to fix oversteer? How about a good alignment?

if one has exhausted their suspension tuning, they must try other things. cut the guy a break.

although, honestly... i don't think a wing or front lip is going to fix any understeer unless the car is pushing at 120+ mph.

[Jparkr]

if one has exhausted their suspension tuning, they must try other things. cut the guy a break.

although, honestly... i don't think a wing or front lip is going to fix any understeer unless the car is pushing at 120+ mph.

no there are no understeer issues... yet. just oversteer.
and even though the suspention is open and you can run anything, the top cars are all very very alike, im just playing with ideas for alittle somthing more ya know? ;)

[blueapplesoda]

can you cut and move parts from oem parts? i was thinking stack the i lip and Is lips and then cut the under side peice out from another IS lip and attach as a splitter using aluminum bars or something. Thats completely oem....if you can't use aluminum bars, cut some sheet metal from the rear deck yo

hell just cut a long strip of metal from a parts car hood and attach that as a splitter lol its oem


but for real, i think the I lip+IS lip, or maybe even two I lips+IS lip would help bring that lip closer to the ground for less undercarriage turbulence and more downforce

[blueapplesoda]

btw i don't really know what im talking about

it just kinda makes sense logically

[AlarmedBread]

Hm.

Does exhaust have to be OEM?

If not, you could run dual single pipes on either side, and attach a wing between them at a level that would create down force. Like those japanese budoka or wtf ever it was cars with crazy exhausts.

On a db car you could probably angle the front bumper down some and it might act like a splitter *shrug*

[1991 318is]

The E30 shape is old school, hence "the flying Brick". If the rules require OEM, non M3 parts you're stuck. A rake to the chassis will help with the downforce by getting the front lower and the deck higher. It should also help the oversteer by raising the rear center of gravity.

[jlevie]

The only way you'll get any downforce would be with a wing that's positioned approximately as high as the top of the car. Unless the wing is quite large there'll be little downforce at moderate to low speeds. While that would help with oversteer in that regime, that benefit would be offset by greater drag at higher speed.

A properly set up E30 will have some oversteer under power, which is quite useful. Excessive oversteer will be as a result of incorrect suspension setup (springs/shocks/sways), incorrect tire pressures, or incorrect weight distribution.

[dark89e30]

For a while, I've been considering plating the whole bottom of the car with aluminum and making a diffuser. That can't hurt. Try google imaging 'rear diffuser' for some ideas.

[UNHCLL]

lots of good info! thanks for the honest inputs but the point for this question is cornering. if we were going topspeed or 1/4 then we would have very little downforce.
if we ever end up racing laguna seca or other high speed tracks we will need all the front force we could get to get away from the understeer.
the issues with the tracks ive seen are oversteer so thats why im attempting to keep the rear alittle more secure. :-)

While I applaud your enthusiasm... you're going about this in entirely the wrong way. You've played too much Gran Turismo.

Correct Oversteer/Understeer with proper suspension tuning, NOT "aerodynamic" aids. Adding "downforce" isn't going to help. The more "downforce" you add to "help" in corners = that much more drag on straights. Its why BMW M3's didn't always run their adjustable wing flaps in full up position.

You wont' be going fast enough in a non-M m20 powered e30 to really warrant extra wings.

Also, as a pet peeve... its "CosmeTic"

Best,
-C

[UNHCLL]

btw i don't really know what im talking about

Sadly, that is quite obvious.
You don't know anything about rules/regulations for sanctioning bodies...

-C

[UNHCLL]

A properly set up E30 will have some oversteer under power, which is quite useful. Excessive oversteer will be as a result of incorrect suspension setup (springs/shocks/sways), incorrect tire pressures, or incorrect weight distribution.

Correct... or incorrect/unskilled driver inputs.

-C

[Jparkr]

While I applaud your enthusiasm... you're going about this in entirely the wrong way. You've played too much Gran Turismo.

Correct Oversteer/Understeer with proper suspension tuning, NOT "aerodynamic" aids. Adding "downforce" isn't going to help. The more "downforce" you add to "help" in corners = that much more drag on straights. Its why BMW M3's didn't always run their adjustable wing flaps in full up position.

You wont' be going fast enough in a non-M m20 powered e30 to really warrant extra wings.

Also, as a pet peeve... its "CosmeTic"

Best,
-C

no, there is never enough gran turismo ok. is that understood? ;)

Anyways, i'm not stupid. i know the give and take relationship of downforce/drag. as i said before, all the cars will have very simular suspensions will be mostly identical. we will be adjusting the suspension from track to track as we race them but all i really wanted was people's inputs on which rear wing/lip you felt was the best for downforce and why you thought that.
We got lots of great, great ideas in this thread as discussion advanced and we'll have to see if some of them are legal in the rules but from now on if you wanna post a comment at least answer the question.
so far we have 2 mtechI lip votes
and 1 MtechII wing without the lip
i really apreciate the ideas that are being throw around to so please keep them comming if you have more. Thanks!:D

[Jparkr]

oh yeah, im intrested in sideskirt ideas too, but i cant really imagine them doing anything aerodynamic, even in the smallest degree. please feel free to prove me wrong if thats the case. thanks for the ideas again!

[atomic]

I wonder what the cost are for the use of a wind tunnel ?? When my buddy gets back into town from overseas I will talk with him about it. He is over design and R & D at one of the high end titanium Road and Mtn. bike companies in the world. He takes new product designs for R & D to test aerodynamics out on these bikes. All I know is he has been using a wind tunnel used by alot of Nascar cup teams, but I will pick his brain as to the cost of the tunnel usage. I am sure its not cheap but who knows it surely want hurt to ask about it.

[Jparkr]

I wonder what the cost are for the use of a wind tunnel ?? When my buddy gets back into town from overseas I will talk with him about it. He is over design and R & D at one of the high end titanium Road and Mtn. bike companies in the world. He takes new product designs for R & D to test aerodynamics out on these bikes. All I know is he has been using a wind tunnel used by alot of Nascar cup teams, but I will pick his brain as to the cost of the tunnel usage. I am sure its not cheap but who knows it surely want hurt to ask about it.

Thanks alot! that sounds cool but unless its dirt cheap or you wanna test for us i dont think we will have the money for it. Even with sponcerships what we are doing is still more about fun and experience.
ill deffenitly want the info though because eventually ill be getting into open wheel classes which are much more seriouse :-)