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3.3L s50???

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    #1

    3.3L s50???

    I've been doing a huge amount of research for my upcoming s50/s52 conversion and Ive noticed a lot of people on Bimmerforums say that they have a 3.3L s50 or s52... how do you get a 3.3L s50??? especially since a majority of these "3.3L" s50s are supercharged...assuming that the max safe for for an s50 type block is 86.5mm(correct me if its really larger but i would say not especially with FI) and the s52 crank is 89.6mm stroke this is still on the very low side of 3.2L

    HIOP makes a 91mm crank and an 95.8mm crank for the s50 that make a full 3.2L and 3.4L respectively on an 86.5mm bore but this still doesnt give you 3.3L

    So how do you get a 3.3L out of an s50 or s52??? no one seems to be able to tell me!!!

    also isnt the stroke gettin a little long at 95.8mm... 91mm doesnt seem so bad though is it???

    all comments on these large displacement s50's are welcome.... take it away guys
    e30sport.net
    '86 325es - s54b32tu - 6-speed - Mtech 1
    '89 325is - m20b25 - 5-speed - Individual​
    '06 M3 Competition - 6-speed
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    #2
    maybe they're building 3.2XXX motors and calling them 3.3, rounding up like BMW does
    BEERTECH

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by Rob
      maybe they're building 3.2XXX motors and calling them 3.3, rounding up like BMW does
      thats a lotta rounding... the stock s52 is only like 315Xcc or somehting like that... thats about a small a 3.2L engine can get... even with the small hiop crank its still only 320Xcc so rounding up that much would just be total BS on their part... i hope they arent doing that cuz thats just stupid...
      e30sport.net
      '86 325es - s54b32tu - 6-speed - Mtech 1
      '89 325is - m20b25 - 5-speed - Individual​
      '06 M3 Competition - 6-speed
      '19 Porsche GT3 RS - 7-speed PDK
      '94 Lancia Delta HF Integrale EvoII - Giallo Ginestra
      '97 Range Rover Vitesse

      Comment

        #4
        There are a lot of kits. Currently the most popular though is the 3.5 kit that changes both the bore and stroke.

        I would rather bore for such a small increase as .1l. But if you are turboing then a slightly longer stroke would help with more torque and you could install some beefed up rods & crank.
        Im now E30less.
        sigpic

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by Ryan Stewart
          There are a lot of kits. Currently the most popular though is the 3.5 kit that changes both the bore and stroke.

          I would rather bore for such a small increase as .1l. But if you are turboing then a slightly longer stroke would help with more torque and you could install some beefed up rods & crank.
          What other kits are there??? i know HIOP has the 2 cranks that i mentioned based of of BMW cranks... i also hear that RMS has a 3.5L conversion but it isnt on their site anywhere....

          at that high of a stroke i would be concerned of a really low redline as well as a huge rod angle that could bend rods despist the added torque... how long do you think a safe stroke could be and still have decent redline
          e30sport.net
          '86 325es - s54b32tu - 6-speed - Mtech 1
          '89 325is - m20b25 - 5-speed - Individual​
          '06 M3 Competition - 6-speed
          '19 Porsche GT3 RS - 7-speed PDK
          '94 Lancia Delta HF Integrale EvoII - Giallo Ginestra
          '97 Range Rover Vitesse

          Comment

            #6
            Having no experience on the matter I cant speak as an authority but Im sure the 3.5 guys were running 7000k.

            3.5 is rare but if you are going for displacement its a good jump. Its a slightly oversquare design but they do increase the bore for some of that displacement.

            Id prefer an undersquare for really high revs but you will loose some of the smoothness and torque.

            Currently people are running massive HP with a basically stock S52 with the AA Stage 2. Even with light mods the amount of boost you can run near stock is high. More than most of us could ever handle (along with the chassis).

            I wouldnt worry about increasing displacement to that high unless you intend on spending $20k on the whole drivetrain and pushing 1200hp. UNless that is your intention a good kit on a stock S52 will make enough power.
            Im now E30less.
            sigpic

            Comment

              #7
              Hell Barretts S52 OBD2 stage 1 at 8lbs causes the back end of the car to shift 3 feet to the left everytime he floors it.
              Im now E30less.
              sigpic

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by Ryan Stewart
                Having no experience on the matter I cant speak as an authority but Im sure the 3.5 guys were running 7000k.

                3.5 is rare but if you are going for displacement its a good jump. Its a slightly oversquare design but they do increase the bore for some of that displacement.

                Id prefer an undersquare for really high revs but you will loose some of the smoothness and torque.

                Currently people are running massive HP with a basically stock S52 with the AA Stage 2. Even with light mods the amount of boost you can run near stock is high. More than most of us could ever handle (along with the chassis).

                I wouldnt worry about increasing displacement to that high unless you intend on spending $20k on the whole drivetrain and pushing 1200hp. UNless that is your intention a good kit on a stock S52 will make enough power.
                another good point.. my long term goal i guess would be 500hp at the rear wheels with a GT35R turbo but im very concerend about totally losing low end torque with the turbo... perhaps over concerned since im talking about going to a 3.5L s50... there really is no replacemnet for displacement but at what price is it too much displacement
                e30sport.net
                '86 325es - s54b32tu - 6-speed - Mtech 1
                '89 325is - m20b25 - 5-speed - Individual​
                '06 M3 Competition - 6-speed
                '19 Porsche GT3 RS - 7-speed PDK
                '94 Lancia Delta HF Integrale EvoII - Giallo Ginestra
                '97 Range Rover Vitesse

                Comment

                  #9
                  dude 500hp is easy on a turbo S52. You wil have plenty of torque.

                  Im more interested in seeing how you are going to get that to the ground. Even 245s with a 70% lockup diff aint gonna do much.
                  Im now E30less.
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ryan Stewart
                    dude 500hp is easy on a turbo S52. You wil have plenty of torque.

                    Im more interested in seeing how you are going to get that to the ground. Even 245s with a 70% lockup diff aint gonna do much.
                    i wasnt concered about the max hp and getting there since that turbo should be great up in the rpm range and spool up quick with the dual ball bearings...

                    i guess ive been listening to the twinscrew charger people over on bf.c too much saying that turbos have no low torque

                    as for getting it to the ground.... im trying to figure that out yet.... i figure i have over a year to figure it out after the s52/s50 goes in
                    e30sport.net
                    '86 325es - s54b32tu - 6-speed - Mtech 1
                    '89 325is - m20b25 - 5-speed - Individual​
                    '06 M3 Competition - 6-speed
                    '19 Porsche GT3 RS - 7-speed PDK
                    '94 Lancia Delta HF Integrale EvoII - Giallo Ginestra
                    '97 Range Rover Vitesse

                    Comment

                      #11
                      If you are going FI, keep the displacment at 3.2.

                      I have a block sitting in my garage that was bored to 3.3 and there is barely any material between cylinders. This MUST be weaking the block, something you dont want with forced induction.

                      Also, with stroker cranks, you get some pretty extreme rod angles. Not worth the HUGE amount of money those stroker cranks cost.

                      The stock 3.0/3.2 cranks are forged, so throw in some low CR forged pistons and forged rods, and call it a day on the bottom end. This will support HUGE hp levels.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by SpencerM3
                        If you are going FI, keep the displacment at 3.2.

                        I have a block sitting in my garage that was bored to 3.3 and there is barely any material between cylinders. This MUST be weaking the block, something you dont want with forced induction.

                        Also, with stroker cranks, you get some pretty extreme rod angles. Not worth the HUGE amount of money those stroker cranks cost.

                        The stock 3.0/3.2 cranks are forged, so throw in some low CR forged pistons and forged rods, and call it a day on the bottom end. This will support HUGE hp levels.
                        out of curiousity what is the bore on the 3.3???

                        i have no doubt in my mind that the s50/52 with forged pistons and rods can get up to 1000+hp with the right tuning and turbo... however i was concerned about low end torque since a turbo is all mid and upper rpm power.... i think im just over reacting though and im just seeing what my options are
                        e30sport.net
                        '86 325es - s54b32tu - 6-speed - Mtech 1
                        '89 325is - m20b25 - 5-speed - Individual​
                        '06 M3 Competition - 6-speed
                        '19 Porsche GT3 RS - 7-speed PDK
                        '94 Lancia Delta HF Integrale EvoII - Giallo Ginestra
                        '97 Range Rover Vitesse

                        Comment

                          #13
                          What about two staged turbos, one to get it sideways and the other for high revs??

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by BeirBrennerE30
                            Originally posted by Ryan Stewart
                            dude 500hp is easy on a turbo S52. You wil have plenty of torque.

                            Im more interested in seeing how you are going to get that to the ground. Even 245s with a 70% lockup diff aint gonna do much.
                            i wasnt concered about the max hp and getting there since that turbo should be great up in the rpm range and spool up quick with the dual ball bearings...

                            i guess ive been listening to the twinscrew charger people over on bf.c too much saying that turbos have no low torque

                            as for getting it to the ground.... im trying to figure that out yet.... i figure i have over a year to figure it out after the s52/s50 goes in
                            That is just going to be silly man. I really don't think E30's can handle much more than 300-350hp to the wheels. I have ridden in a turbo S50 E30 with 313rwhp and it was only usable from a roll in the straight line. Now unless all you do with your car is street race, then its pretty stupid, at least in my opinion. Our cars just can't handle that kind of power. What do you really need that much for anyways? There is no way that is usable on the track... not even close.

                            EDIT: This is T.J. over at Erick's house.
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                            Comment

                              #15
                              Originally posted by BeirBrennerE30
                              ...
                              i have no doubt in my mind that the s50/52 with forged pistons and rods can get up to 1000+hp with the right tuning and turbo... however i was concerned about low end torque since a turbo is all mid and upper rpm power.... i think im just over reacting though and im just seeing what my options are
                              If you want a N/A power curve with a turbo system, you should look elsewhere. You point this out as if you're going to lose low rpm power with a turbo and that is not true.

                              /Mattias

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