Connecting fuel rail to injectors

[E30godz]

i ordered some aluminum fuel rail stock from ATP and have some questions someone may be able to help me with..The fuel rail is for the additional injectors im going to be running for the fuel requirements ill need. i plan on making a V-shape additional rail by cutting this 2 foot section of rail into the right size, and putting a fitting in each side so a hose can be connected so it will form a V...the reason for the V is that the injectors in each side of the intake manifold are slanted a bit so this will line it up well...but each injector in the runner's are lined up perfect straight, so i cant mount the rail directly to the injectors. I plan on tapping the rail and running a hose to the injectors, but what is the best way to connect the hose to the injector top? is there a fitting somewhere out there? Right now i just plan on pushing some fuel hose over the end of the injector, over the o-ring and clamping it down...but i wouldn't mind something "cleaner"

[RedBaron86325]

I have ideas, but I'm not following your description at all.

[Jordan]

Personally I think the whole idea is a complete waste.

You dont need 2 sets of injectors.

All the turbo M20's i know of, that are run on the street, do just fine with a single set of upgraded injectors and a FPR. Infact most have issues of running too rich. So there is no reason why your build should require a second set.

[PeterCip]

I completely agree with Jordan. mine goes to 10:1 after 4000RPM @ 8psi of boost..
there is just no need fo more fuel. this is with 19lb/hr injectors and static fuel pressure of 3.25 bar..
-pete

[E30godz]

Hey guys, thats great!! I'm just super glad that everyone else's setup worked too. BUT...that doesn't help me now does it?

Redbaron: Basically, I'm looking for a way to connect a hose, to a fuel injector, without using just a clamp.

[matt]

look at www.sdsefi.com and MSD (the ignition people)

I think it's a bad idea also.

Matt

[PeterCip]

How did you figure out what kind of fuel demand you will be having? And the description of you POA is terrible. maybe a little more detail would help.

we are just postng opinion man to try to save you some lost effort, no need to be a prick about it.
Is your car currently running? if not, maybe you should take the advice of those of us whos cars are running...

there is a lot to be learned from those who have experience.

[RedBaron86325]

Instead of rubber fuel hose, you might want to check into solid lines similar to the W124 MBZ. It uses solid stainless lines from a fuel distribution block to the injectors. This would allow you more flexibility for the secondary fuel rail mounting location, or simply use a fuel distribution block instead of a rail. I'm not exactly sure how the solid lines attach to the injectors as I never paid that much attention to them. I've seen a few different sites (never bookmarked them though) where you can purchase injector bungs out of steel or misc alloys. They only require to be welded into place in the intake manifold and/or fuel rail. Purchasing the bungs premachined and the correct size would lessen the risk of fuel leaks from poor O-ring seal.

I think it's cool that you are doing something custom, but I have to agree with those above. There are injectors out there that can dump a hell of a lot of fuel. A secondary rail would decrease the amount of workable room under the hood and 14 new fuel line connections would increase the chance of fuel leaks. An eta cold start injector, although atomization isn't that great, could be activated to assist in those higher rpm lean conditions if that happens to be the case.

Just throwing out ideas. I like DIY fabrication projects.

[E30godz]

Thanks

My orignal plan was to do as everyone else did, RRFPR, 24# injectors etc etc.

First some background:
This project is my senior project; i have to do this to pass. An requirement of this bullshit requirement was we had to find a mentor. I found one....Mark Riley, the owner of Turbo Tune in Greensboro, North Carolina. I went to him and told him about my plans etc etc and he agreed to help. HE was the one that suggested the secondary rail. We first thought about placing just 2 big ass injectors post throttle body, but he believed that with the M20 intake design, all the cylinders would not get proper fuel distribution. So we decided to put 1 injector into each runner to be safe.

SO..i decided to follow my mentor's plan of action...who has been in business some 15 odd years, while being quite succesful.

Financially, this will even be CHEAPER than buying a decent rising rate fuel pressure regulator. 30-40 on plumbing pieces, 20 for 2 feet offuel rail stock, and maybe another 30 for hose or whatever im going to use to feed each fuel injector. The fuel injectors i am getting free from my mustang-loving brother.

So i DO have my reasons for doing this guys. It's not some half-assed approach that hasn't been thought out.

Room wise...it's not going to require all that much...a T going off the line to the fuel rail that runs into the new fuel rail. and then into the injectors...which amounts in 6 new fuel lines.

Sorry if i came off as a prick Peter, although my intentions at the time of writing that were questionable, i still apoligize. My car is currently running, but not boosting air as i haven't got the plumbing from the turbo to intake on yet. I do agree with the "There is a lot to be learned from those who have experience"..AKA the Mike at turbo tune story.

Thanks again

[RedBaron86325]

This link supplies some decent injector information up to 49 lb injectors.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0102&P=2

[PeterCip]

No worries,
I am just unsure on how you guys figured out your fuel demands. what kind of boost will you be making on your project?
Are you gonna use a SMT6 or other engine managment software?
Let us in on some of the details..
and I would be concerned about sealing the injectors into rubber tubing. they are going to be holding back 3 bar of pressure. And the last thing you want is a fuel leak under the hood.
-pete

[gstuning]

The smt6 is perfect for this application

as it can handle the extra injectors at specific boost, throttle, rpm with variable fuel depending on the 3 above,

Alot of people do this and it works great,
check out www.bsmotor.com and check out there installation on a 420hp+ M20
running there own fuel management unit,

[E30godz]

yea im using the SMT-6 ; )

[matt]

look in the ATP fuel section, they have a product that you weld to the manifold then it clamps the injector in place and is tapped for 1/4in NPT on the rail side, so you could mount the rail a little away and use braided hose to connect to the injectors.

Matt

[E30godz]

yea i was looking at those, its very well put together...but at 65 bucks a pop its damn expensive! I'll let you guys know how i work it out!