Feedback requested: UUC Wilwood BBK

[E turd]

Hello everyone. I am in the market for some brake upgrades. I will be doing my m52 swap in December and am trying to get the brakes sorted and done first so I don't have to worry about doing them during the swap, or worse that they eff up after the swap is completed and I can't stop. Anyway, I picked up a Porsche 924s brake booster to resolve the intake manifold clearance issue and also a 7 series 25mm master cylinder. My original plan was to get some stainless lines from UUC and let that be the end of the upgrades. However, I find myself eyeing the UUC big brake kit.

At present I have EBC sport rotors and green stuff pads with otherwise stock brake components. I realize that just doing the upgrades I had planned along with a fluid flush will probably do wonders, but two things also come to mind:

1. I would love it if my car could stop a lot better during autocross which happens about twice a month. The amount of fade I have now is disappointing to say the least.

2. Since the fluid is coming out, I would hate to follow my original plans only to find out that I want more braking power, and then have to go in there again.


Another thing that comes to mind is how light the wilwood calipers actually are, which reduces unsprung weight. I had a set of wilwood dynalites for my mk2 and it was shocking how much lighter they were than the stock components. UUC is also running a 10 percent off coupon which covers shipping and a few buck off the purchase so the overall sting is lessened a bit. I know a lot of people are going to say that BBK's are overkill for a daily driver, but what I want to know from those people who have this kit installed is whether or not they think it was worth it.


On a side note, does anyone know if the UUC 11.75" BBK will clear the Tire Rack Racing 15x8 wheels? I am hoping to run those for the track, and some 16's for daily duty.



Thanks to all who have info regarding the setup and want to share. :D

[PeaveyBassist]

http://www.massivebrakes.com/

forum sponsor. Great guy with great service and a great reputation. Sorry its not feedback on your original idea for a BBK, but maybe you could throw a Massive kit into your list of possible BBK's to get. Kits start at $750 for the front.

[E turd]

I know about Massive and have read many of Lee's informative contributions here and on E30tech. Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that his 11.75" kit is about $300 more after the 10 percent coupon on the UUC. I suspect the calipers used in his kit are more expensive and possibly better than the dynalites from the UUC kit, but I'm not sure I need more than the dynalites would provide (heck, I may not even need them, but that's why I'm looking for feedback).

Of course, I am open to other BBKs. I just want to get something that suits my use which will be m52 swapped daily driver with weekend warrior use twice a month.


Nonetheless, thanks for the input!

[SkinnyVT]

At present I have EBC sport rotors and green stuff pads with otherwise stock brake components.

This is your problem, EBC pads are terrible. You should never experience brake fade during an autox, even with stock pads. Think about it, SpecE30 guys are racing on stock brake rotors.

I know about Massive and have read many of Lee's informative contributions here and on E30tech. Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that his 11.75" kit is about $300 more after the 10 percent coupon on the UUC. I suspect the calipers used in his kit are more expensive and possibly better than the dynalites from the UUC kit, but I'm not sure I need more than the dynalites would provide (heck, I may not even need them, but that's why I'm looking for feedback).

As you stated the 11.75" Massive kit comes with better calipers, however he also makes an 11" street kit with less expensive calipers for $750. This would be more than ample for your use.

The short of it is, if you only want better braking then get some good pads. If you have the cash and just want a BBK then go for it and get what you want. I am another one that recommends Massive over anything that UUC sells. The customer service that you get from Lee is worth much more than any savings/headaches you get from UUC.

[z31maniac]

Happy street kit owner here. Coupled with good pads in the rear, the street kit is all you need for everything but the most serious track car.

[Massive Lee]

... and also a 7 series 25mm master cylinder...

I hope my post is not unappropriate. My one word of advice is in regard of your choice of MC. Let me explain. The e21, 2002 or Porsche 924 booster use smallish diaphragms which offer much less assistance than the big diaphragm found in the e30 booster. Meaning that right off the bat, you will need to press harder on the brake pedal. The initial feel will be that you have less braking power just because you need to press harder. But hey, that's a personal choice that still works okay with the stockish 20/17mm MC.

Now for the hydraulic portion. See it has a leverage. If you go to a big 25,4mm MC, you are increasing the MC piston area by 57% on top of the increased force required by the 924 booster. Shorter pedal travel, but also much, much stiffer. You might find it quite "uncomfortable" around town, and not as fun on a track.

The way around a bigger MC is to fit calipers with bigger pistons. Choice is 1.75", 1.63", 1.375", 1.25", 1.12" and 1.00" (1.375" being probably what UUC will send you if you keep the rear stock). If you increase only the front calipers and keep the rear stock, then your are moving all the braking power to the front, creating major imbalance, and at the end the car will take longer to stop.

As was mentionned, Massive kits are indeed more expensive than UUC's and there are reasons for that: Superlite calipers are of better quality (much, much stiffer) than Dynalite/Dynapro and more expensive. The rotors are also of much better quality. They have directional vanes for improved cooling (Sport and Race kit) and use heavy wall castings for improved resistance to heat. While UUC uses $35 discs, Massive's are $95 each. Still cheaper than what Wilwood charges for its 0.81" HD rotor at $125... Also Massive hats are custom designed and machined for the e30 hub. It is not a generic hat that is adapted for a car.

Also, Massive's Race kit with 32mm rotors will have the same clearance as UUC's kit with narrower 21mm discs. And Massive's kit with 21mm discs will have 11mm extra air between the caliper and the wheel... So, the fit is improved.

Pad wise, the Superlite pad has 50% extra surface, and has about twice as much pad thickness once you remove the backing plate thickness.

If you guys want a Christmas GB on Sport kits, please let me know. I'll start a thread.





Race rotor is 1.25" thick for even improved cooling

[E turd]

Hey Lee,

I know some guys on the forums get their boxers in a bunch when you "contribute" to their threads, but I am not one of those guys. Your input, especially, is always welcome in my book. Thanks for the info you provided. You pretty much answered all of the questions I had in regards to the major differences between the two kits and why the cost for each is what it is. I know you have spent many hours developing and researching brakes, more specifically brakes for BMWs and so I will definitely heed your advice regarding the master cylinder. I would like to know if a "plus one" master cylinder is recommended in place of the 25mm unit I have. As I recall, the race winning E30 M3s came with a larger MC than the other E30's and it seems like there was good reason for it.

I would definitely be interested in some kind of group buy, preferably no later than Christmas so I can get them in and still have time to do my swap. Regarding the sport kit, what all is included in the $1050 complete kit? Are the "optional" pads and rotors being sold as individual maintenance/replacement parts or are they upgrades for what comes in the complete kit. It's a bit confusing the way it is listed on the site. Also, I don't see any mention of stainless brake lines on your site. Are they not recommended? If you do recommend them, is there a brand that you prefer over others?



A couple of weeks ago I attended a local autocross event and saw for the 3rd time an old school Chevy station wagon muscle car navigating the course like it was a stock miata. I was baffled and amazed at how such a pig could weave through the turns like it did and I came to the conclusion that it must be a wicked suspension setup, coupled with a wicked brake setup. Now, I might have it all wrong, but since I am adding weight up front with my swap, it seems like beefing up the brakes is something that should be done. Of course, I haven't decided anything yet and am still open to the input of wiser, more experienced people. So, if you want to offer up the voice of reason or experience, I am all ears!



Thanks to all for the contributions so are. And, for anyone who might know, will the sport kit clear the Tire Rack Racing 15x8 wheels? I know there is a template available to check clearance, but since I haven't purchased the wheels yet, I can't exactly check.

[Brian D]

And, for anyone who might know, will the sport kit clear the Tire Rack Racing 15x8 wheels? I know there is a template available to check clearance, but since I haven't purchased the wheels yet, I can't exactly check.

yes

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showpost.php?p=1599369&postcount=77

Check the remainder of that thread for details on trimming the calipers.

[E turd]

Thank you kindly for that link :)

[Toms73NovaSS]

If you guys want a Christmas GB on Sport kits, please let me know. I'll start a thread.

Any chance some sort of deals on the rear kits? ;) ;)

[Massive Lee]

Any chance some sort of deals on the rear kits? ;) ;)

I have a limited number of front and rear kits in stock, except for the Street kit which I have plenty. If you guys want a GB on any other kit, I can make a much better offer but there are strings attached: minimum number of kits sold, 3 to 4 week delay as the kits are machined specifically for that GB. All inventory currently on the shelves is sold at regular price for people who don't want to wait.

So, who wants to manage a GB?

Lee