Announcement

**Massive Lee** · 03-12-2010, 08:07 PM

I guess you should read my comment on www.e30tech.com

Are you affiliated to UUC? Discuss... ;-)

**nrubenstein** · 03-12-2010, 08:12 PM

I like the filled rotor holes, and can't help wondering what makes "manufacturing the caliper in house with no bracket needed" so special.

I'm not bothered by the pad sweeping over the extra area - that's not really any different from a drilled rotor, but I can't see why the heck this is worth more money than an equivalent kit that uses a bracket. ESPECIALLY when the intro "deal" goes away.

What I want to know is where you can buy rotors for this kit OTHER than through UUC? I would hate to be dependent on a specific vendor for replacement consumables.

**browntown** · 03-12-2010, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Massive Lee View Post

I guess you should read my comment on www.e30tech.com

Are you affiliated to UUC? Discuss... ;-)

can you link to your direct thread, I don't know how to navigate that place. I'm sure it's between the skinny jeans and fleshlight subforums.

**stumble_t** · 03-12-2010, 08:22 PM

Lee's posts Here are very relevant, and for me informative.

excerpt quote:
"I believe any customer should ask a few other questions to determine if it is what he needs.

1- What type of rotor is used? Light duty? Heavy duty?
2- What kind of duty can the kit widthstand? Light, medium, heavy.
3- Are the rotors with straight vanes or directional vanes? (diectional vanes greatly improve cooling).
4- Is the kit using a fixed or floating discs system?
5- What are the pad thickness and area?
6- How stiff are the calipers?
7- What material are the pistons? (Stainless and titanium will keep heat from reaching the fluid)
8- How many pad compounds are available for that caliper?

You can ask the questions above to any supplier, and you shall know if it is the kit for you. Not everyone has the same needs." end qoute

**Massive Lee** · 03-12-2010, 08:24 PM

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1021419#post1021419

**whodwho** · 03-12-2010, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post

I like the filled rotor holes...

I believe what you are seeing is the stain of the extra holes of a dual pattern wheel or spacer.

Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post

What I want to know is where you can buy rotors for this kit OTHER than through UUC? I would hate to be dependent on a specific vendor for replacement consumables.

"All consummable parts easily available; uses a standard Wilwood pad shape (7212) or other-brand equivalent and standard Wilwood 11.75" rotor."

**Rob@UUC** · 03-12-2010, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Massive Lee View Post

I guess you should read my comment on www.e30tech.com

Everybody definitely should... and see my response!

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90488

Originally posted by Massive Lee View Post

Are you affiliated to UUC? Discuss... ;-)

Not that I am aware. :mrgreen:

Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post

I like the filled rotor holes

Not sure what you mean... ?

Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post

... and can't help wondering what makes "manufacturing the caliper in house with no bracket needed" so special.

A few significant reasons:

- Eliminating the bracket is just one less connection point for hardware to come loose.

- Designing the caliper specifically and exclusively for the E30 enabled us to optimize fitment and wheel clearance.

- Display a level of engineering and manufacturing beyond machining a simple bracket.

Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post

I'm not bothered by the pad sweeping over the extra area - that's not really any different from a drilled rotor, but I can't see why the heck this is worth more money than an equivalent kit that uses a bracket. ESPECIALLY when the intro "deal" goes away.

"More" money? At full regular price, it's $1099... intro price is $999. The weekend deal makes it $850. For that money, you get professional race-grade calipers, 2-piece rotors, real Hawk pads, and stainless steel brake lines for all four wheels (which would be over $100 anywhere else anyway).

What could be had for less money? Used other-marque calipers and 1-piece rotors that require special modifications every time they need to be replaced? That's not exactly a comparable item, is it?

Originally posted by nrubenstein View Post

What I want to know is where you can buy rotors for this kit OTHER than through UUC? I would hate to be dependent on a specific vendor for replacement consumables.

A-ha! Now you see one of the specific design features of UUC brake kits... you can get replacement parts anywhere! The rotors are a standard Wilwood 11.75" rotor with 8x7.00 mounting that you can buy from any Wilwood dealer, pads are a standard Wilwood 7212 or Hawk HB237 shape, and even replacement piston seals interchange with standard Wilwood parts.

If you're at a racetrack and have an OG Racing store, it's likely that all the parts are right there waiting for you.

How nice is that? We've designed these kits the way we would want them if we were the consumer... easy to service, affordable to purchase.

Thanks for the opportunity to answer your questions.

- Rob Levinson
UUC

**Rob@UUC** · 03-12-2010, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by stumble_t View Post

Lee's posts Here are very relevant, and for me informative.

excerpt quote:
"I believe any customer should ask a few other questions to determine if it is what he needs.

1- What type of rotor is used? Light duty? Heavy duty?
2- What kind of duty can the kit widthstand? Light, medium, heavy.
3- Are the rotors with straight vanes or directional vanes? (diectional vanes greatly improve cooling).
4- Is the kit using a fixed or floating discs system?
5- What are the pad thickness and area?
6- How stiff are the calipers?
7- What material are the pistons? (Stainless and titanium will keep heat from reaching the fluid)
8- How many pad compounds are available for that caliper?

You can ask the questions above to any supplier, and you shall know if it is the kit for you. Not everyone has the same needs." end qoute

To answer a few questions raised so far:

---------------------------------------------------------
"Any plans for a matching rear kit?"

Yes and no. This is my honest answer as reflects the entire scenario of a matching rear kit:
Our front kit is designed to be correctly balanced (as to brake bias) with the original rear brakes. No change to the rear brakes (other than matching or similar pads and the SS lines which we automatically include) is necessary to retain proper bias. A good brake upgrade is not just going "huge"... in fact, if you review all of our competition brake packages for other BMW models, our rotor and piston sizes are "appropriate". Heck, if you want to stuff a zucchini in your pants to make an impression, that's one thing... but just having oversized is not the entire recipe for upgraded performance brake systems.

The problem with doing a rear brake kit is the expense; as you can see on your own E30, the rear rotor's central hat is very deep. To build this as a 2-piece rotor like our fronts would require a large piece of aluminum with much of the interior machined away... which would make it substantially more expensive than the front kit.

Knowing the frugality of the typical E30 enthusiast, the necessary price of nearly $1400 for the rear kit would likely deter many potential customers.

I'm not saying we absolutely will never do a rear kit - I am saying no at this time.

Another thing to realize is that from a true performance perspective, especially with engines that are not gifted with an overabundance of torque, keeping the rotating mass of the drive wheels low is beneficial. Adding large rear rotors has the same effect as heavy wheels, your car will accelerate slower.

-----------------------------------------------------

"Is it normal that the pads rub below the friction surface?"

With that particular rotor, yes. We're using a genuine Wilwood rotor, and it is the spec design for that pad shape. The fact is, the difference is about a millimeter or so and has no impact on the brake system performance, noise, or dust.

There are alternate rotors from Wilwood that are cut a little differently that have more material there, but quite frankly, I don't see that as worthwhile for the expense for the majority of users.

-----------------------------------------------------

"What type of rotor is used?"

Genuine Wilwood UL-32 rotor that they do call "light duty"... which is amusing to me as we've got MOD-class racers using this rotor know for a few years, as we've been using this with our previous Wilwood caliper kit.

If there is the desire to upgrade to a different Wilwood rotor, we will gladly make the swap. The beautiful thing about the UL-32 is the replacement cost, about $40 each disk. An upgrade to the Wilwood 160-7701 HD-36 rotor would be about $90 additional to the kit. If this is something a potential purchaser of the kit would like, we request that they call us for the substitution.

--------------------------------------------------

"What kind of duty can the kit widthstand?"

From what we've seen so far, potentially anything reasonable on street or track. As above, we've had MOD racers using our previous kit with excellent results. No complaints, no issues... the only time we hear from these guys is when they're ordering replacement pads and rotors!

Our caliper is built to the highest racing standards with high-temp seals and stainless pistons, with a caliper body stiffness that equals or exceeds similar Wilwood calipers.

The best part about the caliper is the built-in mounting. Take a close look at some of the pics... there's a significant amount of material there, no issues with flexible brackets.

--------------------------------------------------

"Are the rotors with straight vanes or directional vanes? (diectional vanes greatly improve cooling)."

As above, the UL-32 rotor. It's got straight vanes. A correction to a common misconception or marketing device... curved vanes are not "greatly" improving cooling. They are incremental improvements, not monumental.

More important factors in thermal management (which is the "big picture" in a performance brake package) is caliper heat isolation, pad choice, and the airflow that really makes a difference - ducting.

--------------------------------------------------

"Is the kit using a fixed or floating discs system?"

Floating? On an 11.75" rotor? What's the point? Are these going on 200mph Formula1 cars running 13" slicks?

With this diameter, thermal expansion is minimal. Adding the cost, complexity, potential for rattling, and hardware wear factors into the mix do not present themselves are reasonable.

Again, my MOD racer example is the "proof in the pudding". I have yet to see an E30 in a motorsport exercise with greater speed or power, and this exact rotor configuration has been serving them well for years.

----------------------------------------------------

"What are the pad thickness and area?"

Wilwood 7212 pad shape, cross-reference to Hawk HB237:

We've chosen the .480" pad thickness variation to minimize caliper excursion beyond the wheel hub plane.

One of the primary design goals of this bespoke caliper was to optimize wheel clearance. Thanks to trimming a few millimeters here, a few millimeters there, this design uses absolutely no spacers with some of the more popular race wheels, and the smallest of spacers with standard wheels, including the OE BMW 15" option.

One may make the point that a .480" pad is not very thick - yep, it's not. So you have to change it more frequently. With this pad shape being so reasonably priced at around $55-$75 a set (depending on material), who cares? When you compare this to the typical Wilwood 7420 .800" pad costing $95-$160 for the same materials, you can see there is direct cost parity.

Truth be told, I'd rather replace race pads more often any way. One issue we've seen with thicker race pads in our many years of track and race experience is that repeated heat cycling of a track pad will make it "cook out" - they lose effectiveness. We usually replace the thicker race pads before they've worn out simply because they don't work as well. From that perspective, the thicker pads are less of a value.

--------------------------------------------------

"How stiff are the calipers?"

As above, the equal or superior of any comparably-sized caliper. There is no reasonable cross-brand stiffness factor that is realistically measured, so the question itself has little objective value.

But from a cursory comparison to Superlite or Dynalite/pro calipers, you will notice that ours have more "beef" in the important structural regions, especially the mounting lugs. Our mounting lugs are over 20% thicker than Wilwood (and steel hardware enforced), and fully 100% wider.

----------------------------------------------------

"What material are the pistons?"

Stainless steel, all the way.

----------------------------------------------------

"How many pad compounds are available for that caliper?"

Wilwood: A, B, E, Q, CM, BP-10, and BP-20.

Hawk: all major compounds, including DTC-70, DTC-60, DTC-30, DTC-05, Black, Blue, HT-10, HP-Plus, HPS.

EBC: Greenstuff, Redstuff, Yellowstuff.

Pretty much any manufacturer that makes a Dyna-fitment pad will either have the exact shape, or a minor modification will allow their pads to fit.

Keep in mind something very important about anything you would ever get from UUC... we don't hide our designs or product characteristics. Just the opposite, in fact - our website is often an "instructional guide" on our components, appropriate uses for them, why a product may (or even may not) be the right fit for your needs.

With our new E30 Direct Fit Caliper brake kit, which was truly a "clean sheet" design, we've weeded out all of the unnecessary fluff of big brake kit parts that are not needed or are over-priced.

By dedicating a design exclusively to the E30, we've been able to make, in our humble opinion, a perfect match.

**Rob@UUC** · 03-12-2010, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by whodwho View Post

I believe what you are seeing is the stain of the extra holes of a dual pattern wheel or spacer.

Oh, now I understand the earlier question... yes, that's just a "dirt shadow" and the little circles are from a drilled H&R wheel spacer.

Brand-new and clean, the hats look like this:

The hats in that particular picture have been in use for about 15 months on that car, which gives you an idea of how long we've had these calipers in daily use/testing.

That picture of the well-used setup was taken on my personal '88 325iS with S52/6-speed:

- Rob

**xphiledan** · 03-12-2010, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Massive Lee View Post

I guess you should read my comment on www.e30tech.com

Are you affiliated to UUC? Discuss... ;-)

no affiliation, just wanted to see what your thoughts were

**z31maniac** · 03-12-2010, 08:55 PM

Those look like Wilwood Dynalites with a redesigned mounting system, especially considering it uses the Dynalite pad.

Just don't see why this is a better VALUE than one of Lee's Sport or Race kits. Light duty, thinner rotors with smaller, more flex prone calipers that use pads with less area than a Superlight.

**Rob@UUC** · 03-12-2010, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by z31maniac View Post

Those look like Wilwood Dynalites with a redesigned mounting system, especially considering it uses the Dynalite pad.

They're no more a Wilwood Dynalite than a Micheline Pilot is a Sears Roadhandler because they both fit on 15" wheels.

This is a clean-sheet CAD-designed caliper that does happen to use a pad that fits Dyna-series calipers, simply because it is a commonly available and affordable shape.

Let me make this perfectly clear; this is a brand-new design, made right here in Georgia. No affiliation with Wilwood whatsoever. We've built this caliper to the highest standards, using the best materials. This is not an "economy" caliper in any respect other than by buying from us, the manufacturer, you're not paying several levels of mark-up so the price stays reasonable.

With all due respect, I ask that you review this product on it's own merits. Comparisons are always useful, but assumptions are not. Y'know, they would be a great addition to the BluntTech catalog. Give me a call on Monday! ;-)

Originally posted by z31maniac View Post

Just don't see why this is a better VALUE than one of Lee's Sport or Race kits. Light duty, thinner rotors with smaller, more flex prone calipers that use pads with less area than a Superlight.

See technical reasons for hardware choices above.

Flex prone? Exactly the opposite. Stiffer in our testing than any Superlite or Dynalite used in other kits!

It's a better value because:

it's a better caliper, stronger and with staggered pistons.
it's a better designed assembly.
it's got better wheel clearance.
it's got 2-piece rotors for a price similar to 1-piece rotor kits.
... and many other reasons!

**Massive Lee** · 03-12-2010, 10:07 PM

I really don't know where to start. Maybe tomorrow. Good night everyone.

BTW - Paint on calipers traps heat and melts from brake fluid. Race calipers are anodized. ;-)

**Rob@UUC** · 03-12-2010, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by Massive Lee View Post

BTW - Paint on calipers traps heat and melts from brake fluid. Race calipers are anodized. ;-)

Lee... seriously, you've got to be kidding. You posted that?

Besides, we use powdercoating, not paint. Just like Performance Friction, Alcon, Brembo... you know, those companies that you must think are apparently just basement hobby amateurs in the brake business and, by your comment, clearly know very little about performance brakes. LOL!

But hey, if an enthusiast wants us to supply a bare aluminum caliper (which you must think clearly more heat-dissipative than all that insulating anodizing!), we can do that too. That's the freedom of being a manufacturer, infinite customization.

- Rob

Announcement

UUC - Big Brake Kit - Direct Fit caliper, 11.75" rotor

UUC - Big Brake Kit - Direct Fit caliper, 11.75" rotor

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment