4 point lower cross brace

[SimplyDope]

understandable. but I can't justify even spending $100 on something that someone feels like it improves drivability and that's it. Maybe if this sorted out some understeer. And believe me, a modification can make a car easier to drive but slower around the track but that doesn't mean that since it's easier to drive it's faster simply because it's easier to drive. At the end of the day, we all know the butt dyno is unreliable, I just think threads with lack luster information and the one person who claims it does wonders is the person with the most bias.(the only person who happened to drop $150 and wants to tell themselves didn't waste their money)

But maybe I'm just being too cautious, since there are many "i need shorter endlinks for no reason" threads and other such non-sense, I take most r3v posts with a heavy serving of salt.

You should email the guys over at Mason Engineering. The reason why their product is so expensive is because of the R&D that has gone into it. They would be the ones to ask for hard data, not some noob on r3v. Any product can be tested for hard data like what you and others are after. Just don't expect the price of said product to be $100 still when all is said and done. Also, there are so many different variables to be considered, it would be really hard to find something useable. And, just like with all the rest of the suspension/chassis-strengthening components we like to throw at our cars, they all work together. Anyhow, I don't know shit either, so take my opinion with a grain of salt :)

[fuzzysux]

You are welcome to take this however you want I was just reviewing a mostly unknown product and giving some first hand experience. Also why would bmw make nearly an identical brace for the e36 if it wasn't beneficial. I drive a 318is with 277k miles on it I just want the car to feel solid when I turn and go over bumps not net .0003 seconds faster lap time. I can much easier justify spending 144 on this than dumping tons of cash building an NA m10 on standalone (coming from someone who has dumped a lot of money into an 8v)

thank you for sharing and reviewing! i wish i caught this earlier! next time you are under your car, can you measure some of these basic dimensions for us? i would like to make my own. i was under an impression that there was some z axis stuff going on, but i see that it is (supposed) to be perfectly flat (no z axis) so it is incredibly easy to make!

thanks for sharing your findings!

[Fidhle007]

I have an S50 car on GAZ coilovers and it will be getting a cross-brace. Sure, I hope it will improve things in the feel and handling department on track days but in general I'm thinking of it as an added measure of security for a 22 year-old chassis that's getting 650lb springs and rigid everything. Would I put one on my m20-powered daily driver? Not a chance in hell...

[Jaxx_]

You are welcome to take this however you want I was just reviewing a mostly unknown product and giving some first hand experience. Also why wouldbmw make nearly an identical brace for the e36 if it wasn't beneficial. I drive a 318is with 277k miles on it I just want the car to feel solid when I turn and go over bumps not net .0003 seconds faster lap time. I can much easier justify spending 144 on this than dumping tons of cash building an NA m10 on standalone (coming from someone who has dumped a lot of money into an 8v)

Keep in mind that the E36 is heavier and is generally has less NVH. Let's face it, you're guessing at the differences in the chassis. At the end of the day, I wasn't trying to knock your decision because it doesn't improve performance, but simply I was interested in if it did. I understand you only wanted less NVH and I can respect that.



Also, you may not be competitive but I'm close to the limit of FSP in Solo II. The standalone is really for the turbo I have and not for an N/A build. However, if you want to knock others for their purchases because of your lack of understanding, that's fine, it doesn't bother me.

[chrisbmx68]

You are welcome to take this however you want I was just reviewing a mostly unknown product and giving some first hand experience. Also why would bmw make nearly an identical brace for the e36 if it wasn't beneficial. I drive a 318is with 277k miles on it I just want the car to feel solid when I turn and go over bumps not net .0003 seconds faster lap time. I can much easier justify spending 144 on this than dumping tons of cash building an NA m10 on standalone (coming from someone who has dumped a lot of money into an 8v)

[Jaxx_]

I'm with you 100% right here, it drives me nuts to find out when someone spouts off info without a) first-hand experience b) stating a source for the info c) calculating something. Sometimes hard data just cant be conveniently recorded though. Even data/lap times can't account for a quality such as "feel" though

understandable. but I can't justify even spending $100 on something that someone feels like it improves drivability and that's it. Maybe if this sorted out some understeer. And believe me, a modification can make a car easier to drive but slower around the track but that doesn't mean that since it's easier to drive it's faster simply because it's easier to drive. At the end of the day, we all know the butt dyno is unreliable, I just think threads with lack luster information and the one person who claims it does wonders is the person with the most bias.(the only person who happened to drop $150 and wants to tell themselves didn't waste their money)

But maybe I'm just being too cautious, since there are many "i need shorter endlinks for no reason" threads and other such non-sense, I take most r3v posts with a heavy serving of salt.

[Sagaris]

...I'm a person that prefers hard data over someone on the internet saying it's "better" without any objective data.

I'm with you 100% right here, it drives me nuts to find out when someone spouts off info without a) first-hand experience b) stating a source for the info c) calculating something. Sometimes hard data just cant be conveniently recorded though. Even data/lap times can't account for a quality such as "feel" though

[Jaxx_]

I love you.

<3 ;)

jaxx I disagree with you. These cars can benefit from any kind of stiffening and reinforcement you can throw at them. Hell if it was safe and practical I would have a full cage in both of my street cars. For comparison before this brace when driving over rail road tracks it felt like the car would fall apart I had to go about 5mph. Now I can actually go 10 or 15 and the suspension doesn't feel like its tearing the front end of the car apart. I already have camber plates up front and a raised subframe in the rear with an adjustable camber and toe kit welded in. That being said this is a daily driver and im not that concerned about "improving turn in"

here's my point: just because something feels better doesn't mean it is. If you think it improved and that's all you're concerned about, fine by me. I think it's important that we're all sure we keep "feelings" away from facts. I will be happy to hear differences in over/understeer, however. Those feelings are fairly universal. If the goal was improving NVH then that is as understandable.

Don't take my feedback personally--I'm a person that prefers hard data over someone on the internet saying it's "better" without any objective data.

[Sagaris]

yeah... thanks dude.

I love you.

[chrisbmx68]

jaxx I disagree with you. These cars can benefit from any kind of stiffening and reinforcement you can throw at them. Hell if it was safe and practical I would have a full cage in both of my street cars. For comparison before this brace when driving over rail road tracks it felt like the car would fall apart I had to go about 5mph. Now I can actually go 10 or 15 and the suspension doesn't feel like its tearing the front end of the car apart. I already have camber plates up front and a raised subframe in the rear with an adjustable camber and toe kit welded in. That being said this is a daily driver and im not that concerned about "improving turn in"

[Jaxx_]

less chassis flex = less chance of cracking/tearing the chassis, lets the suspension do its work by maintaining the intended suspension geometry, improves steering input responsiveness.

yeah... thanks dude.

No one ever really has hard data on aftermarket parts especially suspension bits. Quality strut braces and subframe connectors/braces can definitely be good if designed well. Anything to keep the chassis from deflecting and maintain consistent geometry is a benefit. Adding this doesn't make the suspension stiffer at all it just lets it work the way its supposed to rather than the chassis flexing like a limp noodle. There is a reason new cars have chassis that are way way way more rigid than old cars.

I think you missed the point, and I disagree. There's a certain extent that chassis flex can benefit a car. No one in this thread is on full moton coilovers and corner weighted are they? Let's be honest there is a good reason for a chassis to flex a little, but obviously not a "wet noodle." Maximizing traction and cornering grip is more important to me than improving turn in. If you were serious about improving turn in you can do that with an alignment before touching the frame.

Basically, deflection of the frame doesn't always mean you lose grip and cornering force. You need to get it out of your head.

[Sagaris]

less chassis flex = less chance of cracking/tearing the chassis, lets the suspension do its work by maintaining the intended suspension geometry, improves steering input responsiveness.

[chrisbmx68]

No one ever really has hard data on aftermarket parts especially suspension bits. Quality strut braces and subframe connectors/braces can definitely be good if designed well. Anything to keep the chassis from deflecting and maintain consistent geometry is a benefit. Adding this doesn't make the suspension stiffer at all it just lets it work the way its supposed to rather than the chassis flexing like a limp noodle. There is a reason new cars have chassis that are way way way more rigid than old cars.

[Jaxx_]

I'd like to see hard data on this brace... can anyone shed some light on the actual performance benefits? People talk about strut braces too but I hardly see the benefit of something that prevents negative camber gain for slight steering response. Just because something "feels tighter" doesn't mean it's good. Super stiff suspension might feel like a race car but that doesn't mean it can handle small bumps in pavement properly.

Even a simple off ramp MPH test would be fine.

[chrisbmx68]

Ok back on track! Brace is installed and works well, noticeably stiffens up the front end especially obvious when entering driveways with steep transitions. I used to be able to feel the whole front end flex as I slowly turned in now that is greatly reduced. Also feels more planted on hard cornering and over abrupt bumps.

Fitment wise we already knew I had to shorten that one front tube mount. I cut it down and welded the washer back on. If I hadn't had a skid plate it would have bolted right up no problem (minus the welding which I knew had to be done) I just had to fineness the front of the brace and skid plate its snug in between the 2. Here are some pics of the ordeal.

Marked for cutting

cut to the right length

ready to weld

tigged back on

painted with some white epoxy enamel and installed

ground clearance reduction or lack there of. Shouldn't have any issues even if I ever get coilovers.

side shot

I tried to take a picture of how tight it is between the back of the skid plate and the front mounts but the car was too close to the ground to fit the camera in there well.


Overall if they fix the MFG defect the product will be a nice affordable piece that works as it should.