Drilled Rotors worth it?

[LennysEleven]

I found a set of four Brembo drilled rotors on Ebay for $155, first of all what is the price of four OEM rotors? and do drilled rotors offer any noticeable improvement for street driving? What should I expect to pay just to get my rotors turned? My brakes arent shot but they feel kinda weak to me. There is no vibration either so I guess its possible I could just get new pads. Should rotors always be turned when putting new pads on?

thanks
Nick

[Rob]

Re: Drilled Rotors worth it?

I found a set of four Brembo drilled rotors on Ebay for $155, first of all what is the price of four OEM rotors? and do drilled rotors offer any noticeable improvement for street driving? What should I expect to pay just to get my rotors turned? My brakes arent shot but they feel kinda weak to me. There is no vibration either so I guess its possible I could just get new pads. Should rotors always be turned when putting new pads on?

thanks
Nick

1- someone else will chime in, I dont have the figures handy
2- no
3- $10-20 per rotor, or thereabouts
4- ideally, yes

[LennysEleven]

Also, what is the opinion on SS brake lines? Worth the money? I would like a pretty stiff pedal I guess. Ive driven an 02 Turbo 996 I few times in the last month, spoiled me. Those brakes are insane! I dont expect to get the same brake feel/performance as that though.

[C ///M]

1. Cross-drilling won't do anything on the street except look cool.
2. The $155 drilled rotors you see on ebay are not actually brembo drilled rotors. What that seller is doing, is he buys plain rotors from brembo and has them drilled himself, thats why he offers them so cheap. Real drilled brembo rotors have a gold finish because of the heat and chemical treatments that each rotor goes through after drilling to try and avoid stress cracking as much as possible.
3. Either way, you'll get the same results with his rotors as real brembo rotors, they simply aren't as strong. They will be completely fine for street use, but if the car is consistently tracked or auto-x'ed, then I expect those rotors would not last as long as real drilled brembo's.
4. Are they worth it on the street? Not really, but if you want an improved look, go for it.
5. SS lines are a good buy. WIll improve pedal feel.
6. If you want a stiff pedal, you may want to considering upgrading to a larger Master Cylinder.
7. You want a much better feel for street? Buy some zimmerman slotted rotors or ate power discs or some drilled rotors if you really want, upgrade to stainless lines, maybe an M3 MC (the e32 25mm might be a bit much for stock brakes), get some good pads like Pagid sports or Mintex Reds, and some nice fluid like ATE super blue or AP Racing 600 (ted raves about his Motul 600, i am going to try that in the future). And there you go..

[Xmarksthespot21]

I completely flushed my brake system and replaced it with Super Blue Racing brake fluied also with new rotors and pads in the front.

The pedal is a lot stiffer than before. The fluid probably helped a lot.

[AdamF 88iS]

Drilled rotors tend to get stress cracks easily, expecially those Zimmerman ones.

[C ///M]

Drilled rotors tend to get stress cracks easily, expecially those Zimmerman ones.

Do you speak from personal experience? Zimmerman rotors are "cast-drilled" as in the holes are cast into the rotor and are atleast as resistent if not more than the brembo x-drilled heat and chemically treated rotors.

[LennysEleven]

Does the M3 MC bolt right up?

[AdamF 88iS]

I speak from experience, and the experience of many of my customers that ended up with warped and cracked Zimmermans. I'll stick to OE or slotted.

[egk2]

Drilled rotors tend to get stress cracks easily, expecially those Zimmerman ones.

I ran cross drilled zimmermans on my e36 front and rear, I warped two sets of fronts but never had any stress cracks, as a matter of fact I know several guys that run these rotors and still no cracks. Just like someone posted above these just look good and really serve no purpose for street driving. I went back to oem, they're cheaper and they don't pulse.

[Skafrog]

NO NO NO. Cross Drilled Rotors are shitty. Period. Not Brembos, not Zimmermans, not anything. Read this site. http://corner-carvers.com/altimathread.php.html
Basically, cross drilled rotors were invented to help out gassing of pads, which is no longer a problem. Also, rotors are designed to dissipate heat. How in the hell will drilling holes into a rotor, taking away critical surface area help this out? Big Brake kits work so well because of the increased surface area, so why would you want to take some area away from a stock sized pad?
Also, if you start to tell me that cross drilled rotors help cool the brakes, read the link.

EDIT: Cross Drilled Rotors are even worse for the track. Last race I worked at, every single moron running cross drilled rotors split them in half.
Also C ///M, that is also a load of crap they feed you, you might want to check out the link I posted as well.

Here is the general idea:


I am not a brake engineer. I do, however, race a car ~25 weekends a year. I do know quite a bit about brakes and what stops your car.



quote:
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Crossdrilled rotors-by design, crossdrilled rotors were designed for track use.
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True. Crossdrilled rotors were developed for racing in the 50s when brakes pads sucked. They would off-gas at relatively low temperatures. The holes gave the gas somewhere to go. If not, it would get trapped between the rotor/pad and the pad would not make contact with the rotor. That is called "fade". Modern brake pads do not do this. True, if you take a street pad to the race track and exceed it's operating temperature, you can get it to fade. But I challenge you to get a Hawk Blue, or Porterfield R4 brake pad or other dedicated racing pad to fade. Ever. Simply, crossdrilled rotors fix a problem that no longer exists.


quote:
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Why? Because, when you drill holes in your rotors, they are designed to dissipate heat (not to rid of brake dust as most people think).
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Surface area dissipates heat. The amount of surface you create from drilling holes is almost insignificant compared to the initial surface area of a standard OE vented. In additionx-drilled rotors will reach higher peak temperature because you are removing metal from the rotor. The metal is what absorbs the heat. Plus, you are reducing pad/surface interface. Tell me again why this is a good idea?


quote:
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I ask any local non-believers to take a ride in my car, I would be happy to allow them to drive it just so they can tell you about the brakes
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I do not doubt your car stop well. Obviously, if you replace busted/worn out OE parts with new x-drilled parts, of course it's going to stop better. What I do doubt is that it stops better than regular new OE-style non-drilled/slotted rotors. I *garuntee* it does not.

Don't believe me? Will you believe an engineer that designs automotive braking systems?

http://www.teamscr.com/grmbrakes.htm http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.htm

http://www.stoptech.com/technical/

Your tires are stopping your car. Not the pads. Not the rotors. Not the SS brakelines. The tires. TIRES!!! Want to stop quicker, get better TIRES and stop wasting money on expensive-as-hell rotors.

Just trying to educate you guys.

[C ///M]

Ska,
First, what part of the links did you want me to read? I read every link completely and didn't learn anything new... (i've actually already come across those links some time ago when i went into my brake obsession stage).

Second, where do you get your info that Zimmer rotors do not have the holes cast into the rotor? I have never had a set of zimmermans and their "cast-drilled" technique is simply what they advertise.

Brembo follows their technique of heat and chemical treating, hence the gold color of all brembo cross-drilled rotors as I mentioned earlier.

Unfortunately, while I didn't get to learn anything new from the links, I appreciate you posting them here for everyone to see.

However, a lot of stuff posted in that altima forum (the first link you showed) is rather useless, however they had a couple good links in their thread.

[EVOIIIM3]

Drilled rotors tend to get stress cracks easily, expecially those Zimmerman ones.

Not true at all....

My car has had Zimmermon X-Drilled on it for while now. After about 6 track days they are FINE! My car goes a little faster most E30's, and gets driven FAST & hard at the track. My front calipers are also not stock.

What usually happens is people try to use them past their wear limit, and they start to stress crack at the holes. You know what? Solid and slotted rotors will do the SAME thing!

If there was no advantage to the x-drilled, why are Porsche, Ferrari, etc.. all using them in their Supercars?

All that stuff on the site is taken as Gospel? Why it's some Ricer site, with no science to back any of it up, it's just internet rumor. As usual it's being spread as fact!

With anything, you have to get QUALITY parts, taking a OE rotor and drilling holes it makes the rotor really weak, and prone to warping & cracking. You need CAST rottors, and when the radius hole is gone, the rotors are gone.

There are a few reasons for the holes.....
1. outgas of pads
2. create MORE surface area to aid in cooling
3. to help keep water off the brake surface.
4. lighter rotor

Slotted rotors...
1. Outgas
2. scrape the pad clean, this helps stop glazing and crap getting stuck in the pad
3. water escape
4. aid in cooling

Anyone with ATE power disk will know the pads don't last as long, and they dust more, it's due to the pads being scrapped by the slots.

On a street car, X-drilled are really just for looks. In brake performance, PAD choice is MORE important then the rotor. OE is best for most stuff.

SS lines, they are worth it...
1. You get new CLEAN lines
2. they are much stiffer
3. they are stronger
4. they will last longer

WATCH OUT FOR EBAY! A lot of the super cheap stuff there is just that SUPER CHEAP! Most is made in China stuff, I doubt the Brembo rotors are even real brenbo rotos.

[C ///M]

Drilled rotors tend to get stress cracks easily, expecially those Zimmerman ones.

Not true at all....

My car has had Zimmermon X-Drilled on it for while now. After about 6 track days they are FINE! My car goes a little faster most E30's, and gets driven FAST & hard at the track. My front calipers are also not stock.

What usually happens is people try to use them past their wear limit, and they start to stress crack at the holes. You know what? Solid and slotted rotors will do the SAME thing!

If there was no advantage to the x-drilled, why are Porsche, Ferrari, etc.. all using them in their Supercars?

All that stuff on the site is taken as Gospel? Why it's some Ricer site, with no science to back any of it up, it's just internet rumor. As usual it's being spread as fact!

With anything, you have to get QUALITY parts, taking a OE rotor and drilling holes it makes the rotor really weak, and prone to warping & cracking. You need CAST rottors, and when the radius hole is gone, the rotors are gone.

There are a few reasons for the holes.....
1. outgas of pads
2. create MORE surface area to aid in cooling
3. to help keep water off the brake surface.
4. lighter rotor

Slotted rotors...
1. Outgas
2. scrape the pad clean, this helps stop glazing and crap getting stuck in the pad
3. water escape
4. aid in cooling

Anyone with ATE power disk will know the pads don't last as long, and they dust more, it's due to the pads being scrapped by the slots.

On a street car, X-drilled are really just for looks. In brake performance, PAD choice is MORE important then the rotor. OE is best for most stuff.

SS lines, they are worth it...
1. You get new CLEAN lines
2. they are much stiffer
3. they are stronger
4. they will last longer

WATCH OUT FOR EBAY! A lot of the super cheap stuff there is just that SUPER CHEAP! Most is made in China stuff, I doubt the Brembo rotors are even real brenbo rotos.

That was by far the most perfect post you're going to find in this thread. Thanks for getting that all out there in a very organized manner.

[niq_nak]

im about to redo my brakes so i have a few questions. from what i have gathered here, the best setup for an upgrade for just a daily driver would be oem rotors, SS lines, and better brake pads (probably gonna go with the mintex reds)? or should i get the ATE power discs for the front?

thanks