Autocrossing with Power Steering Delete and M3 rack

[CoClimber]

I finally got to drive my E30S50 with a '95 M3 rack and power steering delete. I think it would be great on the track but I question how effective it will be at autocross. Seems rather stiff for autocross in slow speed sections. Has anyone autocrossed this setup?

[Balleristic31]

I autox with an e30 m3 rack and no ps and have no problems at all. Your rack will be a little tighter than my set up, but honestly ull be fine. I haven't done an autox where no ps was a detriment to my performance

[CoClimber]

I'm also running 225 slicks which I doubt are helping. I may have left too much fluid in the rack. I will loosen the delete block and crank the wheel both ways to see what happens.

[Jaxx_]

you shouldn't have any fluid in the rack. btw, the delete plate is useless. I'm running 225 slicks, but a factory rack. I'm not a big guy--I can't curl more than about 30lbs, and I don't have a problem.

[DTMbimmer07]

why arent you supposed to have fluid in the rack with the delete plate?

[Jaxx_]

why arent you supposed to have fluid in the rack with the delete plate?

1) there's no point in the delete plate.
2) the fluid is for hydraulic pressure, not lubrication. you keep fluid in there and you're still forcing fluid through the rack with nothing helping you. it's pretty stupid, is all. you're limiting yourself to however fast you can pump fluid through a small hole. wonder why your rack is difficult to steer? yeah.

People needlessly spend money on the delete plate, the ATF doesn't lube the worm gears, and compressed air is a lot less pressure than hydraulic fluid that was normally at 100+psi.(You're not going to "blow out your seals" as some advocates of the delete plate suggest)

[DTMbimmer07]

:up:good to know thanks

[seatown88]

1) there's no point in the delete plate.
2) the fluid is for hydraulic pressure, not lubrication. you keep fluid in there and you're still forcing fluid through the rack with nothing helping you. it's pretty stupid, is all. you're limiting yourself to however fast you can pump fluid through a small hole. wonder why your rack is difficult to steer? yeah.

People needlessly spend money on the delete plate, the ATF doesn't lube the worm gears, and compressed air is a lot less pressure than hydraulic fluid that was normally at 100+psi.(You're not going to "blow out your seals" as some advocates of the delete plate suggest)

^This

I sell delete plugs purely to remove the potential of dirt and debris to get into the rack and damage it. These kits have been used on several race cars without the rack binding or blowing out seals because of residual fluid or air.

[CoClimber]

These forums only work if we come back with the results. I loosened my power steering delete block (free, btw, I made it in the machine shop at work) and spun the wheel lock to lock a few times to pump out the excess power steering fluid. Tightened up the block and the car is fine. Below maybe 5mph it takes some effort but above that it is easy to steer. The first autocross is two weeks away but I think I'm fine.

Again, I have an E30 with an S50, '95 M3 rack, and 225/45/15 r comps.

I also think that seatown88's plugs would be fine. I made the delete block because I could.

[CoClimber]

Okay, after autocrossing the car and also taking it on the track, I decided to reinstall the power steering pump. Most of the time the steering is fine but when I am really turning hard, like in a tight slalom, I put more effort into getting the car through the slalom, rather than being precise. I think it cost me first place in last weekend's race (Missed by .025 seconds!). I suppose I could decrease my caster but I don't want to do that when I track the car.

[F34R]

I ran against you with a 1.9 Z3 rack with no powersteering. Your issue is that you don't have any blow by while running no PS.

1) there's no point in the delete plate.
2) the fluid is for hydraulic pressure, not lubrication. you keep fluid in there and you're still forcing fluid through the rack with nothing helping you. it's pretty stupid, is all. you're limiting yourself to however fast you can pump fluid through a small hole. wonder why your rack is difficult to steer? yeah.

People needlessly spend money on the delete plate, the ATF doesn't lube the worm gears, and compressed air is a lot less pressure than hydraulic fluid that was normally at 100+psi.(You're not going to "blow out your seals" as some advocates of the delete plate suggest)

I bet you are going off your hunch on that BS above ;) I for one KNOW that blocking both holes with bolts does in fact does blow the seals. I resealed a stock e30 rack in '07 and it blew out within a year. Not to mention annoying to turn at low speeds. I picked up the Condor alum plate and it has been a DREAM to drive. PM member Swanny on here, he drove it and did not even notice it was without PS.

If you seal off both ends of the flow where do you think fluid or air will be pressed out? Only place is the seals...

Silence explains it perfectly:

"The reason you need a power steering delete that actually loops the two banjo bolts is, not only to let any residual fluid pass from one side of the rack to the other, but also to let the air inside flow freely from one side to the other. With out this passthrough, you will be compressing the air inside of your rack on each side when you turn the wheel, causing it to be harder to steer, and also eventually blowing out the seals."

50.00 for the aluminum one. Turn the wheels left and right then install to have the proper amount of fluid.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=130389

[CoClimber]

Maybe your lack of power steering is why I beat you so badly that day. :-)

Actually, I did have a bypass plate on my rack. As I stated, I felt that there was just enough extra resistance in the steering to hurt my time. I believe my racing slicks also contributed.

I love my M3 rack, but only with the power steering. I'm sure that if my car was closer to stock it wouldn't matter as much, but, for me, PS delete didn't work.

[F34R]

If you call badly beat with a chipped s50 w/s52 cams, coilovers and racing slicks(from what you said at inspection) against my stock ETA with coilovers and street tires.

I am not even sure you have s52 cams as your engine was bought from a kid. Post up pictures of the cam part #s.

My best time was 37.23 in the fun run against your time of how many runs? while I was replacing my throttle cable for the rest of my entire runs. We will not be in the same class this year anyways. But I don't care much about that, times are times.

sm 87
Douglas Binder
1987 BMW 325is
Red
37.754
36.719
36.590
36.974
36.119+3
38.169
39.192
39.711
Best- 36.590
411888 +0.119

[Bearmw]

^ thems fightin words

[F34R]

^ thems fightin words

I don't fight, I purely posted #s from the race we were both in. I was a fraction off from him with a 121hp engine and street tires vs his S50 with 260hp(his words) and slicks. I had one timed lap of 41 before my cable snapped.

I could not gain enough time on the start straight and the back curve. That is where the s50's extra power helps shed time.

If I could go any faster I would have been low 36s high 35s. I did low 37 twice in the fun run and a high 39(With a stock ETA). That is a total 4 laps the entire day vs his 8 and how ever more he got in the fun run.