Autocrossing with Power Steering Delete and M3 rack

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  • CoClimber
    Member
    • Oct 2009
    • 80

    #1

    Autocrossing with Power Steering Delete and M3 rack

    I finally got to drive my E30S50 with a '95 M3 rack and power steering delete. I think it would be great on the track but I question how effective it will be at autocross. Seems rather stiff for autocross in slow speed sections. Has anyone autocrossed this setup?
    sigpic'87 325is, S50, Lightened Flywheel, Ground Control suspension, Strut Tower Braces, Roll Bar, Five point Harness, lots of little go fast things.
  • Balleristic31
    R3V Elite
    • Aug 2009
    • 4198

    #2
    I autox with an e30 m3 rack and no ps and have no problems at all. Your rack will be a little tighter than my set up, but honestly ull be fine. I haven't done an autox where no ps was a detriment to my performance

    -NICK

    Comment

    • CoClimber
      Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 80

      #3
      I'm also running 225 slicks which I doubt are helping. I may have left too much fluid in the rack. I will loosen the delete block and crank the wheel both ways to see what happens.
      sigpic'87 325is, S50, Lightened Flywheel, Ground Control suspension, Strut Tower Braces, Roll Bar, Five point Harness, lots of little go fast things.

      Comment

      • Jaxx_
        E30 Mastermind
        • Dec 2009
        • 1880

        #4
        you shouldn't have any fluid in the rack. btw, the delete plate is useless. I'm running 225 slicks, but a factory rack. I'm not a big guy--I can't curl more than about 30lbs, and I don't have a problem.
        '84 318i M10B18 147- Safari Beige
        NA: 93whp/90ftlbs, MS2E w/ LC, 2-Step
        Turbo: 221whp/214ftlbs, MS3x flex @ 17psi

        Comment

        • DTMbimmer07
          E30 Fanatic
          • Mar 2009
          • 1485

          #5
          why arent you supposed to have fluid in the rack with the delete plate?

          Comment

          • Jaxx_
            E30 Mastermind
            • Dec 2009
            • 1880

            #6
            Originally posted by DTMbimmer07
            why arent you supposed to have fluid in the rack with the delete plate?
            1) there's no point in the delete plate.
            2) the fluid is for hydraulic pressure, not lubrication. you keep fluid in there and you're still forcing fluid through the rack with nothing helping you. it's pretty stupid, is all. you're limiting yourself to however fast you can pump fluid through a small hole. wonder why your rack is difficult to steer? yeah.

            People needlessly spend money on the delete plate, the ATF doesn't lube the worm gears, and compressed air is a lot less pressure than hydraulic fluid that was normally at 100+psi.(You're not going to "blow out your seals" as some advocates of the delete plate suggest)
            '84 318i M10B18 147- Safari Beige
            NA: 93whp/90ftlbs, MS2E w/ LC, 2-Step
            Turbo: 221whp/214ftlbs, MS3x flex @ 17psi

            Comment

            • DTMbimmer07
              E30 Fanatic
              • Mar 2009
              • 1485

              #7
              :up:good to know thanks

              Comment

              • seatown88
                Grease Monkey
                • Oct 2010
                • 331

                #8
                Originally posted by Jaxx_
                1) there's no point in the delete plate.
                2) the fluid is for hydraulic pressure, not lubrication. you keep fluid in there and you're still forcing fluid through the rack with nothing helping you. it's pretty stupid, is all. you're limiting yourself to however fast you can pump fluid through a small hole. wonder why your rack is difficult to steer? yeah.

                People needlessly spend money on the delete plate, the ATF doesn't lube the worm gears, and compressed air is a lot less pressure than hydraulic fluid that was normally at 100+psi.(You're not going to "blow out your seals" as some advocates of the delete plate suggest)
                ^This

                I sell delete plugs purely to remove the potential of dirt and debris to get into the rack and damage it. These kits have been used on several race cars without the rack binding or blowing out seals because of residual fluid or air.

                Comment

                • CoClimber
                  Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 80

                  #9
                  These forums only work if we come back with the results. I loosened my power steering delete block (free, btw, I made it in the machine shop at work) and spun the wheel lock to lock a few times to pump out the excess power steering fluid. Tightened up the block and the car is fine. Below maybe 5mph it takes some effort but above that it is easy to steer. The first autocross is two weeks away but I think I'm fine.

                  Again, I have an E30 with an S50, '95 M3 rack, and 225/45/15 r comps.

                  I also think that seatown88's plugs would be fine. I made the delete block because I could.
                  sigpic'87 325is, S50, Lightened Flywheel, Ground Control suspension, Strut Tower Braces, Roll Bar, Five point Harness, lots of little go fast things.

                  Comment

                  • CoClimber
                    Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 80

                    #10
                    Okay, after autocrossing the car and also taking it on the track, I decided to reinstall the power steering pump. Most of the time the steering is fine but when I am really turning hard, like in a tight slalom, I put more effort into getting the car through the slalom, rather than being precise. I think it cost me first place in last weekend's race (Missed by .025 seconds!). I suppose I could decrease my caster but I don't want to do that when I track the car.
                    sigpic'87 325is, S50, Lightened Flywheel, Ground Control suspension, Strut Tower Braces, Roll Bar, Five point Harness, lots of little go fast things.

                    Comment

                    • F34R
                      sLaughter
                      • May 2009
                      • 12390

                      #11
                      I ran against you with a 1.9 Z3 rack with no powersteering. Your issue is that you don't have any blow by while running no PS.

                      Originally posted by Jaxx_
                      1) there's no point in the delete plate.
                      2) the fluid is for hydraulic pressure, not lubrication. you keep fluid in there and you're still forcing fluid through the rack with nothing helping you. it's pretty stupid, is all. you're limiting yourself to however fast you can pump fluid through a small hole. wonder why your rack is difficult to steer? yeah.

                      People needlessly spend money on the delete plate, the ATF doesn't lube the worm gears, and compressed air is a lot less pressure than hydraulic fluid that was normally at 100+psi.(You're not going to "blow out your seals" as some advocates of the delete plate suggest)
                      I bet you are going off your hunch on that BS above ;) I for one KNOW that blocking both holes with bolts does in fact does blow the seals. I resealed a stock e30 rack in '07 and it blew out within a year. Not to mention annoying to turn at low speeds. I picked up the Condor alum plate and it has been a DREAM to drive. PM member Swanny on here, he drove it and did not even notice it was without PS.

                      If you seal off both ends of the flow where do you think fluid or air will be pressed out? Only place is the seals...

                      Silence explains it perfectly:

                      "The reason you need a power steering delete that actually loops the two banjo bolts is, not only to let any residual fluid pass from one side of the rack to the other, but also to let the air inside flow freely from one side to the other. With out this passthrough, you will be compressing the air inside of your rack on each side when you turn the wheel, causing it to be harder to steer, and also eventually blowing out the seals."

                      50.00 for the aluminum one. Turn the wheels left and right then install to have the proper amount of fluid.
                      ~ Puch Cafe. ~ Do business? feedback ~ Check out my leather company ~

                      Instagram: @BWeissLeather

                      Current cars:
                      ~ '87 325 M30B35 swap
                      ~ '87 535
                      ~ 01 540 Msport 6spd
                      ~ '06 X5 4.8is

                      Comment

                      • CoClimber
                        Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 80

                        #12
                        Maybe your lack of power steering is why I beat you so badly that day. :-)

                        Actually, I did have a bypass plate on my rack. As I stated, I felt that there was just enough extra resistance in the steering to hurt my time. I believe my racing slicks also contributed.

                        I love my M3 rack, but only with the power steering. I'm sure that if my car was closer to stock it wouldn't matter as much, but, for me, PS delete didn't work.
                        sigpic'87 325is, S50, Lightened Flywheel, Ground Control suspension, Strut Tower Braces, Roll Bar, Five point Harness, lots of little go fast things.

                        Comment

                        • F34R
                          sLaughter
                          • May 2009
                          • 12390

                          #13
                          If you call badly beat with a chipped s50 w/s52 cams, coilovers and racing slicks(from what you said at inspection) against my stock ETA with coilovers and street tires.

                          I am not even sure you have s52 cams as your engine was bought from a kid. Post up pictures of the cam part #s.

                          My best time was 37.23 in the fun run against your time of how many runs? while I was replacing my throttle cable for the rest of my entire runs. We will not be in the same class this year anyways. But I don't care much about that, times are times.

                          sm 87
                          Douglas Binder
                          1987 BMW 325is
                          Red
                          37.754
                          36.719
                          36.590
                          36.974
                          36.119+3
                          38.169
                          39.192
                          39.711
                          Best- 36.590
                          411888 +0.119
                          Last edited by F34R; 01-25-2013, 06:32 PM.
                          ~ Puch Cafe. ~ Do business? feedback ~ Check out my leather company ~

                          Instagram: @BWeissLeather

                          Current cars:
                          ~ '87 325 M30B35 swap
                          ~ '87 535
                          ~ 01 540 Msport 6spd
                          ~ '06 X5 4.8is

                          Comment

                          • Bearmw
                            E30 Fanatic
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 1323

                            #14
                            ^ thems fightin words
                            Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. -Mark Twain

                            Comment

                            • F34R
                              sLaughter
                              • May 2009
                              • 12390

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bearmw
                              ^ thems fightin words
                              I don't fight, I purely posted #s from the race we were both in. I was a fraction off from him with a 121hp engine and street tires vs his S50 with 260hp(his words) and slicks. I had one timed lap of 41 before my cable snapped.

                              I could not gain enough time on the start straight and the back curve. That is where the s50's extra power helps shed time.

                              If I could go any faster I would have been low 36s high 35s. I did low 37 twice in the fun run and a high 39(With a stock ETA). That is a total 4 laps the entire day vs his 8 and how ever more he got in the fun run.
                              Last edited by F34R; 01-25-2013, 04:06 PM.
                              ~ Puch Cafe. ~ Do business? feedback ~ Check out my leather company ~

                              Instagram: @BWeissLeather

                              Current cars:
                              ~ '87 325 M30B35 swap
                              ~ '87 535
                              ~ 01 540 Msport 6spd
                              ~ '06 X5 4.8is

                              Comment

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