Dreaming: Miata-style butterfly brace

[funcrew]

This probably won't amount to anything, but I contacted Keith at flyinmiata.com about their butterfly brace for miatas & expressed the view that E30 people would buy these in bulk if they became available. This was his response:

"Tim -
We don't deal with any cars other than the Miata, unfortunately. I'd be afraid of designing something and then discovering that the 328e (!) exhaust interfered, for example.

I'll pass your name along to the manufacturer. Mark is a car nut who may be willing to take this on, particularly if he can get a bit of good advice from the E30 community on variations"

So if I hear anything from the manufacturer, I'll have him post here & over yonder at that other E30 forum to gauge how much interest there might be.

BTW if you have not looked at the brace in question, this will make you drool:

http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4538&parentid=0&stocknumber=13-69920%20%2090-97

[Farbin Kaiber]

not a bad price either, see if you could get 666 to fab it up. Don't expect it to be that cost effective though.

[akorcovelos]

not a bad idea, I'd be interested if price is comparitive.

[Farbin Kaiber]

I see that becoming a $900.00 e30 performance part. Just mark my words and see.

[Bill-B]

i really wanted those in my miata before i totaled it...today is the one year anniversary of her death:sad:

[BeirBrennerE30]

ive seen that before... its a really good idea and i would definately buy one for the e30 if someone made a nice one

[funcrew]

I see that becoming a $900.00 e30 performance part. Just mark my words and see.

LOL, that's so true. I hope not though - that would kill the product.

I did get a nice call from Mark who manufactures the Miata piece, and he indicated that the tooling costs aren't that bad. I encouraged him to post a thread on R3V to gauge how much interest people here would have in such a product. He was also looking for tech advice from me, but I told him there were plenty of much smarter guys here who would help out if they were interested in the product going forward.

So if this guy posts, be nice to him.

[Erik j]

I see alot of old mustang guys just take square tube and welt the front and rear subframes together. Kind of the same idea.

[funcrew]

I see alot of old mustang guys just take square tube and welt the front and rear subframes together. Kind of the same idea.

Right - subframe connectors are the first thing you do on any Mustang from 1965 to 2004+.

But the E30 is a much more sophisticated chassis than the Classic/2/Fox Mustang (my opinion). A unibody stiffener combined with front and rear shock tower struts and a butt bar (for the rear subframe), urethane subframe bushings, etc. would result in a very stable platform, with serious improvement for convertibles that are rigidity-challenged to start with.

[Erik j]

Right - subframe connectors are the first thing you do on any Mustang from 1965 to 2004+.

But the E30 is a much more sophisticated chassis than the Classic/2/Fox Mustang (my opinion). A unibody stiffener combined with front and rear shock tower struts and a butt bar (for the rear subframe), urethane subframe bushings, etc. would result in a very stable platform, with serious improvement for convertibles that are rigidity-challenged to start with.

Yeah, I would like to find something for my convertible, it handles great but you can head it wiggle on bumps.

[mxseven]

Hello E30 folks. Thanks to Funcrew for doing some leg work to find a chassis brace solution.

My name is Mark Rivera. I work for the company that builds butterfly braces for Flyin Miata. I was contacted by Keith Tanner of FM after Funcrew inquired about a brace for the E30 chassis. I have worked closely with FM for a few years now helping design and build sheetmetal components for them. The butterfly brace was our first project together, and things have developed from there. I am a long time Miata owner/modifier/nut, and I can tell you almost as much about them as Keith Tanner, of whom possibly noone except the Miata designers themselves (and maybe not all of them), could tell you.

I, however, know VERY little about E30's, except that I got REALLY close to buying a convertible for the wife last year, and I know it's a proven platform with lots of potential...

FM is not interested in offering products for anything but Miatas, but I might be. I've been working on developing a few different types products on my own recently, and am looking for sheetmetal products to develop that relate to motorsports in one way or another.

Enough about me, I'd like to get an idea what sort of interest there would be in a chassis stiffening brace for the E30. Funcrew invited me to stop by here and put a feeler out.

Knowing the success of the Miata braces, I have a good feeling that a decent sized market exists for an E30 unit.

Questions I have:

How sloppy of a chassis is the E30?

Does it get worse over time like the Miata?

Without seeing the underside of an E30, does someone have an informed opinion of how well a product designed similar to the Miata brace would work/fit/be installed?

If there are no obvious roadblocks, the next step would be for me to take measurements from a local E30 (Lexington, KY area) and develop a prototype for testing.

So please speak up with your knowledge of the E30 chassis, and give me an idea what I'm up against...

Thanks!

Mark

[rcko]

Here is a pic of an E30 underside from r3vlimited tech section



vs. Miata (thats one clean belly!!!)



The E30 picture shows the factory jack pts. There are some decent structural pts but they are spanned pretty far apart. The sheet metal thick on the front subframe beams.

First pair that comes to mind are the rear subframe to chassis bolts (green dots in front of the rear tires). These are beffy 14mm bolts. Then there are the two beams spanning aft from the the front subrame (green dots with blue bullseyes next to it.

This to look out for would be the fuel tank located just fwd of the rear subframe and aft of the catalytic outlet.

In my opinion the chassis is pretty stiff compare to the Nissan's I have driven. However, xtra chassis stiffness is a good thing.

Hope this helps and get the ideas and comments from other members flowing

[Erik j]

The convertible is the worst of the bunch, coupes are pretty solid for the most part. I think they have the same lower half so it could be adapted to work on either car. the best would be to make something that puts the front and rear subframes together and bolts to the chassis along the way.

[NC325iC]

god i would love for this to work... sloppy as hell,
i would say putting some kind of brace betweent the front frame bars (where the blue things in the front are) and then for a rear i would say maybe the rear orange dots which ties into the rear subframe mounts mentioned above

this is lookin to be quite a large peice

[Erik j]

I like the brace that goes from the transmission to the diff on the Miata. That might be something that should be tied into the brace.