Which swaybars? And what else needed - reinforce?

[rwh11385]

Robert,

If you have already changed out the springs, then go with the bars. Upping to a 450/600# setup would help with the body roll (to a point) but the ride would be real stiff and rough. The numbers I have been given for my HR Race springs are 315/600# and it isn't confortable as a daily driver. I would stay with your current rates. (You can always change them out later, there's always Ebay.)

Remember, a little body roll can be a good thing. I am assuming that you are running this car on the road, not just track. If you stiffen the roll up to much, you are putting a lot of strain on the unibody, and eventually, something will have to give. Usually its the sway bar mounts in the back. Strengthen those up, and the forces will just get transfered somewhere else.

If you go with a ST rear bar (19mm) or the IE bar (23mm I believe), start with the adjustment at the softest setting and go from there.

Question? Have you put good strut tower braces in yet? Are you mistaking body flex for body roll? This is a famous weak spot in the E30's. That was one of the first things I put on mine and it made a huge difference.


Jeff B.
Roanoke VA
'89 325i, SpecE30 prepared

Alright, I was planning on keeping these rates for my daily driver. Now about suspension, I have a Sparco Strut tower brace....and kinda read/felt the other were kinda pointless.

I'm pretty sure it is body roll, because the whole car feels like it leans a little while taking a corner quickly.

But what is it when I am cornering hard and it sounds like my rear body panels are popping out/stretching? I bet that is flex. And on some balding 930's too.

[Mystikal]

I'm not really for stiffer because my ride right now is comfortable, regardless of what Jay says about his 300/475.

The numbers I have been given for my HR Race springs are 315/600# and it isn't confortable as a daily driver.

Thank you.

[JeffBij]

The Sparco is one of the better braces out there. You just need to be careful, some of these $60 braces being sold are worthless. You still might want to consider a rear brace as well. They do help.

As for the popping sound. What is the condition of the rear subframe bushings. When they get worn, cracked, etc. they will begin making a lot of noise. If they haven't been replaced, check the trailing arm bushings and the differential mount bushing as well. When you replaced the rear shocks, did you replace the tower mounts? Also check for cracks in the sheet metal around the tops of the towers.

If you think about it, the newest E30 is at least 13 years old.

As for a little lean in a hard corner, my E30, with its race springs, hard racing bushings all around, strut bars, sway bars, full race cage, etc., will still leans when cornering. You won't get rid of all of it unless you start welding the suspension together.


Jeff B.
Roanoke VA
'89 325i, SpecE30 prepared

[rwh11385]

As for the popping sound. What is the condition of the rear subframe bushings. When they get worn, cracked, etc. they will begin making a lot of noise. If they haven't been replaced, check the trailing arm bushings and the differential mount bushing as well. When you replaced the rear shocks, did you replace the tower mounts? Also check for cracks in the sheet metal around the tops of the towers.

If you think about it, the newest E30 is at least 13 years old.

As for a little lean in a hard corner, my E30, with its race springs, hard racing bushings all around, strut bars, sway bars, full race cage, etc., will still leans when cornering. You won't get rid of all of it unless you start welding the suspension together.

AH. I'm mentioned a lot how I hate them damn things..... they kept me from participating in my first driving school and I'm hoping to replace them myself in the spring/early summer. Rear TA bushings are going in favor of adj camber tabs or bushings, and probably do the diff bushing when I plan to replace the diff with a 3.91 unit (or 4.10).

I believe the RSM are aftermarket, GC probably.

Well.....I believe some of the roll could be eliminated. Part of it is I am running stock tires currently, but moving back to 50 series on larger wheels soon, so that should help.

[trent]

ST is the best kit out there right now. The IE bars are too big and most people end up not digging the way they feel.

I am gonna disagree and say the racing dynamics kit is better, more adjustments up front, and better hardware is included. However, I believe the price is $$ more than ST.

[trent]

I'm not really for stiffer because my ride right now is comfortable, regardless of what Jay says about his 300/475.

The numbers I have been given for my HR Race springs are 315/600# and it isn't confortable as a daily driver.

Thank you.

I am going to offer anothor opinion. I had H&R Race (with OTS Bilstein Sports)on my daily driver and found it to be way too soft. I can wait to go stiffer on the new chassis.

:twisted:

[JeffBij]

AH. I'm mentioned a lot how I hate them damn things..... they kept me from participating in my first driving school and I'm hoping to replace them myself in the spring/early summer. Rear TA bushings are going in favor of adj camber tabs or bushings, and probably do the diff bushing when I plan to replace the diff with a 3.91 unit (or 4.10).

I believe the RSM are aftermarket, GC probably.

Well.....I believe some of the roll could be eliminated. Part of it is I am running stock tires currently, but moving back to 50 series on larger wheels soon, so that should help.

I went with the adjustable TA bushings. Stay away from the KMac's there. They have a tendancy not to stay set. Bimmerworld sells Powerflex bushings and they haven't moved on me in a year. The diff bushing is a fairly cheap piece and it is worth replacing when changing out the diff. The subframe bushings are a real bitch to change out. I had to have mine cut off with a grinder and torch. (14 years of corrosion)

As for the tires/wheels. What size are you thinking? Most racers run 15" wheels. Bigger wheels look good, but add a lot of unsprung mass. As for tires, go with a good set of street tires at this point. You will learn more with street tires at the schools than with competition rubber. In fact, a lot of HPDE schools won't even allow R compounds until you reach the higher run groups. I ran Yoko AVS ES100's up until I reached the "A" group this last year, and didn't regret it at all.

Tires, like brake pads, are personnel preferences, but I can recommend the ES100's as a good track learning tire. They are relatively inexpensive, wear very well, and have a consistant feel and grip.

By the way, as for wheels, if you decide to go with 15", Bimmerworld in Radford, VA has Team Dynamics Pro Race One's of $115 per wheel. While not the best finish on the wheel (hey, they're racing/track wheels), what he has is made especially for the E30 so no spacers, and they weigh only 13.2 pounds ea. They are getting them for the SpecE30 racing series.

[Mystikal]

By the way, as for wheels, if you decide to go with 15", Bimmerworld in Radford, VA has Team Dynamics Pro Race One's of $115 per wheel. While not the best finish on the wheel (hey, they're racing/track wheels), what he has is made especially for the E30 so no spacers, and they weigh only 13.2 pounds ea. They are getting them for the SpecE30 racing series.

Yeah, I've had my eye on those for a while. I'm currently happy with 14" baskets with Azenis on them, but if/when my skill devolops enough to actually need them, I'll probably be going with the Pro Race One's with some R-compounds.

[fabianyee]

How about the IE sway bars....
They looked nothing like the rest... It's like a work of art...

[rwh11385]

ST is the best kit out there right now. The IE bars are too big and most people end up not digging the way they feel.

I am gonna disagree and say the racing dynamics kit is better, more adjustments up front, and better hardware is included. However, I believe the price is $$ more than ST.

I was talking to my uncle just weekend and he saw a RD kit I believe on some E30 yahoo group for $300? I figured it's the same price as ST, so why bother. Is it superior, really?

I went with the adjustable TA bushings. Stay away from the KMac's there. They have a tendancy not to stay set. Bimmerworld sells Powerflex bushings and they haven't moved on me in a year. The diff bushing is a fairly cheap piece and it is worth replacing when changing out the diff. The subframe bushings are a real bitch to change out. I had to have mine cut off with a grinder and torch. (14 years of corrosion)

As for the tires/wheels. What size are you thinking? Most racers run 15" wheels. Bigger wheels look good, but add a lot of unsprung mass. As for tires, go with a good set of street tires at this point. You will learn more with street tires at the schools than with competition rubber. In fact, a lot of HPDE schools won't even allow R compounds until you reach the higher run groups. I ran Yoko AVS ES100's up until I reached the "A" group this last year, and didn't regret it at all.

Tires, like brake pads, are personnel preferences, but I can recommend the ES100's as a good track learning tire. They are relatively inexpensive, wear very well, and have a consistant feel and grip.

By the way, as for wheels, if you decide to go with 15", Bimmerworld in Radford, VA has Team Dynamics Pro Race One's of $115 per wheel. While not the best finish on the wheel (hey, they're racing/track wheels), what he has is made especially for the E30 so no spacers, and they weigh only 13.2 pounds ea. They are getting them for the SpecE30 racing series.

Yeah, I was looking at the Powerflex, heard poorly of Kmac's. I'm either going to use fire to get out the subframe bushings, so I have a good friend at an alignment shop who could do it if that doesn't work, as well as get the suspension setup, whatever.

I got some 15x7 wheels, that weight 16.5lbs, (not too heavy, not exactly *light* either). I like ES100s, and should be getting those or Bridgestone RE750s eventually. Looking eventually at 15x7 Kosei's, or even 16x7.5 with spacers.....Probably go with 15" however because of the ease of 15" tire costs, etc.

[JeffBij]

Yeah, I was looking at the Powerflex, heard poorly of Kmac's. I'm either going to use fire to get out the subframe bushings, so I have a good friend at an alignment shop who could do it if that doesn't work, as well as get the suspension setup, whatever.

I got some 15x7 wheels, that weight 16.5lbs, (not too heavy, not exactly *light* either). I like ES100s, and should be getting those or Bridgestone RE750s eventually. Looking eventually at 15x7 Kosei's, or even 16x7.5 with spacers.....Probably go with 15" however because of the ease of 15" tire costs, etc.

The Kosei's are good wheels, light and strong. Be careful if you get them to keep the lugs tight. The Kosei have a rep of loosening up. One recommendation is to scrape the paint out of the point where the lug contacts the wheel.

Stay with the 15" wheels. The wait and rotational mass is less and tire selection is better and cheaper. In fact, the Toyo Proxes RA-1 used by the Spec Miata guys is very available and currently running about $139 each (shaved). Just don't be too quick on going to R compound. Take the time to learn.

If you haven't already, I would seriously consider switching the lug bolts out for studs. More reliable and a hell of a lot easier to change the wheels. Just get good ones. BMP, Turner, Bimmerworld, VAC, HMS Motorsport, RoadRaceTechnologies all supply race quality (i.e. harder material). Some of the "cheaper" kits use softer material that can/will break under "spirited" conditions.

[bmwdude]

Jeff, I have GC's, so I would not be a matter of buying a new spring set, but just ordering 2 pairs of stiffer springs.

I'm not really for stiffer because my ride right now is comfortable, regardless of what Jay says about his 300/475. Plus, I just bought a taller rear spring in 475# like 3 months ago, so getting new springs I'd kick myself for.

I dunno, but my friend is an Eibach rep or something, so he could get me both pairs for like cheap, maybe like $160, I dunno. Will like 450/600# springs kill my hint of body roll? And how bad would the ride quality be?

Robert,

If you have already changed out the springs, then go with the bars. Upping to a 450/600# setup would help with the body roll (to a point) but the ride would be real stiff and rough. The numbers I have been given for my HR Race springs are 315/600# and it isn't confortable as a daily driver. I would stay with your current rates. (You can always change them out later, there's always Ebay.)

Remember, a little body roll can be a good thing. I am assuming that you are running this car on the road, not just track. If you stiffen the roll up to much, you are putting a lot of strain on the unibody, and eventually, something will have to give. Usually its the sway bar mounts in the back. Strengthen those up, and the forces will just get transfered somewhere else.

If you go with a ST rear bar (19mm) or the IE bar (23mm I believe), start with the adjustment at the softest setting and go from there.

Question? Have you put good strut tower braces in yet? Are you mistaking body flex for body roll? This is a famous weak spot in the E30's. That was one of the first things I put on mine and it made a huge difference.


Jeff B.
Roanoke VA
'89 325i, SpecE30 prepared

I don't think a driver can mistake body roll from body flex. If your E30 is flexing that much, you have some serious rust issues to deal with.

The E30 is tighter than most competitors of its time, and EVEN new cars of today. If your car feels lose, it's time to change those 20 year old rubber bushings.

Note: One reason why the European sway bar makers (Racing Dynamics, Alpina, etc) chose 16mm rear bars was not stupidity. In their tests, they found that any bar larger than this, would result in mount failures.

I personally have 245's in the rear, RD 22/16mm sway bars, turbocharged 3.0L, full poly bushings, cup kit, and have procrastinated from installing the rear reinforcements for the rear sway bar mounting points. They've been sitting in my closet for the last 5 years. Ok..I will install them this year, for the sake of installing an other "peace of mind" goody on my car, and for a 20 year old car.......sooner or later...but my point is, I've never had problems.

[erik325i]

So, what are the best sway bars that do not require any welding. i plan on installing them myself and I do not have a welder. What all do I need to get with them...? just the sway bars and reinforcement plates?

[damionphillips]

Opinion:

I've had the RD adjustable 22/16 bars on my car for 85000 miles and 7 years. I greased the bushings well, got it aligned, and have had no problems structurally. Keep in mind, bigger bars can lead to less flex (I know, DUH!), but they can also lead to easier hydroplaning. My 87 325is has 14" Baskets and 205/60 3 season tires on it, and it hydroplanes really easy.

[88325isboy]

were can i find the ST bars at and how much are they?