Anyone w/ experience with "Brake Performance"

[Massive Lee]

Seeking for people who have had rotors from this company.

http://brakeperformance.com/site/brake_rotors.php?&vtype=1&vmake=177083&vmodel=177517&vyear=177523&vdetail=177524&cPath=1_177083_177517_177523_177524_177526&dv=100509&ad=google.shopping

And with especially their Corrado rotors. In all honesty, Kurt and myself are experiencing some serious disapointment with RacingBrake's service and products. Therefore I am seeking for an alternate supplier of Corrado discs.

I will be upfront with you guys, I am extremely disapointed when a company rep tells me that RacingBrake's rotors shouldn't be used on a track. I will disclose more, later, but just to reassure you, there's no problem at all if you use the Street kit on the street. If the kit is used for track purpose, it seems that RacingBrake will not honore any warranty, which is pretty disapointing when you have "Racing" in your company name. More later.

Kurt, if you want to add details, it's up to you.

[z31maniac]

^Do any companies warranty products once used in a track/competition environment?

[quickervicar]

^ If it is designed/intended for track use, then I would hope so.

[dinanm3atl]

^Do any companies warranty products once used in a track/competition environment?

^ If it is designed/intended for track use, then I would hope so.

I don't believe so. Even 'race' parts normally say somwhere that there is no warranty if used in a racing environment/tracking/etc.

[kuzimmer]

Kurt, if you want to add details, it's up to you.

Well, In an effort to be fair, we should let RacingBrake investigate the cause of my rotor failure.

I will say this though. Many of us have been spoiled by high quality OEM German parts. I know that I have run severely heat checked rotors for many track days without ever having a failure. With rotors like Brembo and Balo, I could continue to run them until they were at minimum thickness. It should be common sense that you should check your rotors after or before every session to make sure that any heat checking has not worked itself to the outer edge of the rotor. Nevertheless when you are used to high quality rotors that last a certain amount of time (10 track days, 15 track days, etc.) its easy to get lazy.

My rotors failed after 4 track days (actually only 3 days worth of sessions). I did check my rotors before the session in which they failed. There was a lot of heat checking, but I did not see any heat checking that had migrated to the edges of the rotor. That said, its was more of a cursory glance than a thorough inspection. When the rotors failed they exhibited a vibration which was felt through the pedal and I left the track immediately (thankfully via the pit entrance and not via the wall or tire barrier ;) )

I would not expect RB to warranty anything that was used on track. But like Lee, I was a bit surprised when they said that their Corrado rotor was not designed for track use. The company name is RacingBrake after all. I was also highly disappointed with the short service life coupled with the way in which the rotors came apart. After some prodding RB has agreed to examine the rotors and get back to us. I think we should leave it there until they have had a chance to inspect them.

However, I would encourage and Street Kit users who are using the RB Corrado rotor on track to be very careful. You should probably not wait for the heat checking to migrate to the edges before replacing them.

Kurt

[Massive Lee]

To add to Kurt's comment. I was indeed puzzled when I was replied by one of their reps that for track use, I should use a two=piece rotor, and that their one-piece rotors were not intended for track duty. My reply was quite polite, explaining that thousands of e30 owners track and even race on tiny 260mmx 21mm rotors with aboslutely noadverse effect, at least not to the magnitude that interests us: we are atlaking about a crack that splits the whole rotor in two, and a hat that separated from the friction surface.

I guess that my explanation was clear enough, which resulted in RB agreeing to replace the rotors and have their tech department inspect the two "defective" rotors.

When the Street kit was offered, I had the choice between several rotor manufacturers: ATE, Balo, Brembo, and then somebody noticed that neat RB disc with the venting located like on a BMW: inward. and it was a pricey option which doubled the price of rotors. Rotors looked good and it was my pick... So from now on, I will keep on offering it, but for street duty only. Trackers may elect to choose the usual high quality, yet cheaper, Brembo, Balo, Zimmerman, ATE.

[kuzimmer]

we are atlaking about a crack that splits the whole rotor in two, and a hat that separated from the friction surface.

Well to be clear in the case of one rotor there was a radial crack from the outer edge to the hat, then a 360 degree circular crack around the hat. On the other there was a radial crack from the outer edge through the hat to the centerbore. I don' t want anyone to think I was left with two rotor halves. Though one rotor was it two pieces, it did not fall apart completely until the wheel and caliper were removed.

Yes, I'm lucky, maybe I should buy a lottery ticket--or maybe I just used up all my luck?

Kurt

[quickervicar]

I don't believe so. Even 'race' parts normally say somwhere that there is no warranty if used in a racing environment/tracking/etc.

Then I would find another supplier. There are many manufacturers that offer nothing but racing-duty components. They offer warranties.

[dinanm3atl]

Then I would find another supplier. There are many manufacturers that offer nothing but racing-duty components. They offer warranties.

Links?

I don't believe I have ever seen this. If you are racing you are abusing. How can they warranty that?

[Massive Lee]

Actually, in this case, the warranty is not the problem (RB has been great at replacing the two rotors even though their website highlights that there's no warranty on parts used on tracks). The problem is the quality of the RB rotor that is not at par with what, as BMW drivers, we are used to. When we purchase our rotors, we usually get better German or Belgian grade steel, which is not the case with recycled junk from an Asian supplier.

My point with RB's rep was very clear. How come some tiny stock Brembo, Zimmerman, ATE, Balo e30 rotors can be raced all day long with no stress problem, while a bigger RB disc fails in such a short time? The problem is obviously not with the duty, but with the quality of the casting.

So, my recommendation is still the same. RB discs are great for medium duty, but the usual suspects should be used for heavier duty (ATE, Brembo, Zimmerman, Balo).

Now back to www.BrakePerformance.com
I called them yesterday and asked specifically about where the rotors were made/cast. Their website claims "made in the USA". Their rep was kind enough to spend some time on the phone, but could only say that the rotors are purchased from a California-based supplier and machined in the US to their on specifications. So, it doesn't mean the rotors are necessarely cast on our shores, and that it is possible they also come from Asia and are cheap castings.

So back to ATE, Brembo and alikes... This stresses that whatever the components we buy (and that includes control arms and rotors) we should be very carefull where we buy from. No way I would put an eBay comtrol arm on my car...

[quickervicar]

I'm referring to companies like Hitco, Arrow, Pankl, Callies, Willans, etc. that do nothing but custom racing components. If you are paying for their design/application knowledge & quality materials/workmanship then you can expect it to hold up under those intended conditions. I'm not saying that they can't wear out or break--they are stressed parts--but I am saying that if there is a defect in materials or workmanship then you have recourse. You don't think that Mahle stood behind their defective pistons in the Mercedes-Ilmor F1 engines 3 years ago?

Having said that, I feel for Lee. And for RB. Plenty of evidence of E30s doing track days without problem, yet they are still a street-based brake package. I think that they are performing beyond the scope of initial design application, yet any rotor that blows apart usually points to a manufacturing issue. (fade should have been so bad prior to failure to act as a stern warning sign, correct?)

[quickervicar]

My point with RB's rep was very clear. How come some tiny stock Brembo, Zimmerman, ATE, Balo e30 rotors can be raced all day long with no stress problem, while a bigger RB disc fails in such a short time? The problem is obviously not with the duty, but with the quality of the casting.

Sorry, Lee. Your reply beat my posting. I agree with you totally. If touted as race-duty or an upgrade, then it should perform as such.

[Massive Lee]

BTW add Massive as a supplier that will support and warranty its products under racing condition. Afterall, they are purposely built for that. ;)

RB has behaved properly by sending replacements, but their rotors are simply not at par with what others produce.

[kuzimmer]

(fade should have been so bad prior to failure to act as a stern warning sign, correct?)

Incorrect. I was using Raybestos ST43 pads which start fading at around 1300 degrees. I never had any fade. Everything worked great right up until I had the tell tale vibration.

Kurt

[Brian D]

I don't see how brake fade would precede a rotor failure like this.

Kurt (and Lee), sorry for the failure you had. I believe I was the first to point these rotors out to Lee. I ran across them as a result of Chris' (CBi) post HERE. The pictures aren't there anymore, but post #5 was when he discovered the RB rotors. What worried some people about the stock style Corrado rotors was the possibility of breaks occurring from the windows in the hat, shown HERE. The RB rotors seemed to be the answer to that question.

I'm not sure how long CBi ran the one piece rotors, but I know he used them on track a couple times (RX7 calipers). He then switched to their 2 piece rotors, and was very impressed with them. The problem with the 2 piece RB rotors is the price, they are pretty expensive and take away from the point of Lee's "entry level" kit.

So, this is distressing to hear that the rotors have failed, in a rather catastrophic way. I'm not completely convinced the stock G60 rotors are "failure prone", but there is one person that has had issues with them, link HERE, post #2.

Flying Miata uses the RB 2 piece rotor in some of their big brake kits, and I think Goodwin and 949 racing are using variations of Corrado rotors in their kits. I'll do some looking online, but it may be worth a call to any of these 3 companies to do some investigating.

Again, sorry to hear of your problems Kurt, and I'm glad you and your car are OK.