Swap: S38 or S50B32

[hugh jass]

dry sump helps

seriously, do you ever give up?

[SpecM]

Not a damn bit. Dry sump frees maybe 5 horsepower which gets eaten up by added pumping loss. The main point of a dry sump is to maintain oil supply in hard cornering.

bingo

a muscle-car kinda magazine just did an article on the the new GM LS7 (Corvette ZO6), which has a dry sump motor, and showed how to retrofit LS3 wet-sump oil parts to use in swap cars. They dynoed it before and after on an engine (not chassis) dyno. It made 10 more hp with the DRY sump system. Really.

[Bimmerman325i]

dry sump helps

Not a damn bit. Dry sump frees maybe 5 horsepower which gets eaten up by added pumping loss. The main point of a dry sump is to maintain oil supply in hard cornering.

[Bimmerman325i]

didn't the race version of the S38/M88 end up around 375-400 chp? if the factory can't get more NA power out of it for a race engine, I doubt you'll be able to.

They were around 400-450 iirc, but they were worked to high heaven. The guy with an E30M3 S38 I referenced is putting out similar power levels, but likely hit the same wall the factory did.

[gearheadE30]

didn't the race version of the S38/M88 end up around 375-400 chp? if the factory can't get more NA power out of it for a race engine, I doubt you'll be able to.

[JoeMadoo]

You could spend just a couple grand and turbo an M30...

[Bimmerman325i]

you evidently do not realize that with an aggressive head job, cams, and huge cr pistons, and a supportive fuel system anything is possible.

Maybe you should search for the thread here on r3v about the wildly tuned S38B38 with all the goodies that makes 450 crank hp. That's about 380whp. That motor has cost a ridiculous amount of money and is nowhere near 425whp.

But, since you're incapable of doing a psycho sick jdm mad tyte M20 build, you're not really one to talk about engine tuning.

[Farbin Kaiber]

s54, new management options, and this...





3-5k for engine, 2k for management, and 13-39k for tarbo.

So for about 45k + your e30, you could be rocking 1120hp. It's not N/A, but when you need to swing it around to show it off, swing for the stands.

[Bimmerman325i]

what kind of budget do you have? an s38 can make the kind of power you're after with new forged pistons and rods, dlc coated bearings, a fairly aggressive head job, cams, dry sump, stand alone engine management, massively upgraded fuel system, and to make sure the thing holds itself together you're going to need to convert to head studs and main studs i'd try to get some lp-19 ARP studs if you can. you'll probably be in the 425 REAL rwhp the problem is that when you try to make that kind of power NA on a streetcare with less than 300 cubic inches is that you have massive reliability issues. i'm not saying it can't be done you just need to have deep pockets in order to get the stuff that can be reliable.

the s50b32 NA will probably only net you 300 real RWHP if you do everything mentioned above, maybe a little more but again you need to have money and a lot of it. i would look into a turbo'd motor because thats how these in line 6's make massive power.

best of luck to you but i do want to know your budget. if you tell me anything less than say 10,000 there is no way you're going to get it out of a bmw engine NA, now if you tell me i have both engines at my house with wiring and megasquirt ready to go into the car and have 6500 to build them you have a shot but you're going to need money and a lot of it.

Bold =

An S38B38 dynos at 270 whp. There's no way in hell it'll get to 425whp. You are an idiot, but most of us already knew that.

S50B32s commonly get to 330whp with cams and intake, ask Alex L- he does it all the time.

S54s get 350whp with barely an intake and exhaust job. Cams bump it more.

Either way, the cheapest of the motors + work above is the S50B32, and that's a 12k motor for that power. OP, more power to you, and the S38 is the most badass bmw motor ever made, but it's not the best option for NA power. That motor takes to FI like a crackhead to the rock though.

[FredK]

Someone was selling a low hours Koni Challenge engine for $9500(?) last year, including the dry sump system. That would have been insane. I doubt it'd be particularly streetable, but I bet it would be a hoot!

[calz4m]

A worked S54 will get you close. The Koni (Continental Tire) Challenge guys were getting 400 or over. However, I doubt you will spend the $$$ it costs to do a motor like that. Another solution is a S52 with Sunbelt cams, headers, all the tricks. Still wont be 400 though.... I guess my question is: why do you need 400 hp in an E30 anyhow? Sounds like a death wish to me. I suppose its just a street car? Just my $0.02

[dirtysix]

Pinto.

/thread

[Iain]

Definitely use a 10A rotor

[Stephen]

Yes, a 400whp NA s38 will be VERY cheap AND reliable. Much more so than a boosted more common 24v engine.

And to top it off, the 400hp NA engine will have a very streetable powerband, perfect for a daily!!

[Alpina]

serious answer - the S38 is a PITA to put into the e30, because the intake doesn't clear the hood. You need to get subframe risers to fit it under there. Additionally, a rebuild on an S38 prices out to like 15 grand.

If you've got the ducats sitting around, look for a s50b30 euro. It's a completely different engine from the US s50. Keep in mind that none of the three have a hope in hell of getting 400 HP N/A.

You can get 400 hp from B38,,,, but the cost is more than vulgar,, it is astronomical

i have S38B38 in my car,, and i love it,,

like the older engine looks in the engine bay,, and it pulls,,

but as Kronus suggest,, take EURO S50,, a lot easier swap,, and the S50B32 is stunning quick,, and pulls 350 nm vs 400 nm on a very healthy B38 ,, but that is not common after all these years

what you have to do on both swap,, is this

1) another brakebooster.... you must ((i used E34 M5 incl mastercylinder))
2) on S50 you have to change the headerpipe nr 6.. on S38 the collector can get close to the controlarm bushing ((i used THR balljoint)) to get pass
3) the wiring loom
4) hydralic steering pipes must need a small modification
5) propshaft needs to be mixed together E30 vs the other gearbox


but on S50 ,, the engine is in the same length as M20.. the enginemounts bolts directly on the subframe.. you can use the oem radiator.. you CAN use M20 gearbox

but on S38 there is a LOT of modification and they are more expensive than you think,
been there done that ..... it is a cool engine but use more petrol and the EURO S50 is so quicker on responce ,, and use less fuel.. AND YOU CAN REALLY FEEL IT

forget the M88,, in US mode it is only 256 hp,, you can as well use the M30

my opinion is M20B25 turbo..... you can get 400 hp on 1.5 bar ,, on stock internial but APR studs.. there are many discussion about the headgasket.. some use MLS some oem

but it depends on FI or NA you wanna drive with