how to make an e30 feel more "planted"

[IS300E30]

I had the same question as the OP. I have a 1987 325ic with 100k on the working odometer

I refreshed my front suspension totally (new oem Sach struts (vert specific), strut mounts, Lemforder control arms, control arm bushings, tie rods and anything else that is part of the front suspension to refresh, minus the springs which I did not change out as they really do not wear out).

The car does not feel "planted" when I am on the highway or when I hit ruts in the road or if I go over railroad tracks. It feels skittish unless the street is completely smooth

Now, the rear suspension, I only changed the shocks and shock mounts.

I have not changed the differential mount, subframe bushings, rear trailing arm bushings, or rear sway bar links.

If I did change the rear suspension bushings (differential mount, subframe bushings, rear trailing arm bushings, rear sway bar links), would it really solve this skittish issue and not being planted issue? Would it really tighten up the car that much?

Keep in mind I would be replacing it with oem parts not aftermarket performance oriented parts.

I drove my e30 the other day and like usual, the car did not feel planted and felt skittish. Then the next day I drove my daily driver (2004 Lexus IS300 with 81k on the odometer) and that car felt tight as heck and then it really start to bother me more of how my BMW e30 does not have that tight, planted feel.

Please advice if this is more or less normal for a BMW e30 and if not, if replacing those rear suspension bushings that I have yet to change would really make that much of a difference....

[SUICIDE109]

I agree about the e36 feeling like its planted in mud, hell a chevy tracker feels more planted than a e30! Tightening the rear end in your 30 will help a lot also will wider tires(why else do you think they put those huge tires on porsches and shit. I can say a lot about the e30 being as loose as a 32 year old hooker, it feels like I'm in tokyo drift taking turns 10mph faster then listed on the speed limit when all I want to do is hug the shit out of the lines.

[Roysneon]

I would say the easiest and most effective things would be a conservative alignment, quality tires and good rubber bushings. Once that's done, if you're still not satisfied, I'd start looking at newer, performance oriented cars.

[jeffnhiscars]

Uh, actually you did in your first post on the subject.

Actually, I asked this question:

Does it follow then that coilovers are inherently better handling because they are theoretically "matched" ?

Hardly an opinion.

Have another beer:)

[nrubenstein]

I said they were an "interesting option" not that they were inherently better. The jury is still out on whether they make sense to me at all and thats before I get to the question of whether they are worth the price of admission (which I seriously doubt in my case).

If I install shocks or springs and am not happy, most of that stuff is easily resold with a small discount (after writing off your labor as we all do). Call me old school, but coilovers dont really inspire me yet I'm eager to understand their mechanical & practical pros and cons better.

Like for most of us, this is a place to learn, explore & shoot the breeze...<as I pass nrubenstein a cyber beer>

Uh, actually you did in your first post on the subject.

[nrubenstein]

That seems like a cop out though. Someone define "planted"

For me it would be
A) the ability of a car to hook up with the road under WOT
B) carry momentum through a corner with maximum power delivery, a function partly of body roll

Uh, I was defining the difference between "handling" and "planted.". How is stating that they aren't the same thing a cop out?

Anyway, I'd argue that stability in a straight line down the highway is an important component of planted and also what the OP is asking about.

[jeffnhiscars]

They are not inherently better. That is simply not true.

They give you more options, but they don't fundamentally alter the geometry of the suspension (which is the only real way that that they could be inherently better).

I said they were an "interesting option" not that they were inherently better. The jury is still out on whether they make sense to me at all and thats before I get to the question of whether they are worth the price of admission (which I seriously doubt in my case).

If I install shocks or springs and am not happy, most of that stuff is easily resold with a small discount (after writing off your labor as we all do). Call me old school, but coilovers dont really inspire me yet I'm eager to understand their mechanical & practical pros and cons better.

Like for most of us, this is a place to learn, explore & shoot the breeze...<as I pass nrubenstein a cyber beer>

[Swagg]

Buying an e30 with wonky control arms and tie rods and then replacing them is the best way to make an e30 feel more "planted".


.....or so ive heard?

[Raxe]

Run 800lb coilovers and 245 tires.

[Falconer]

Planted is a handling characteristic. A good handling car is not necessarily "planted."

That seems like a cop out though. Someone define "planted"

For me it would be
A) the ability of a car to hook up with the road under WOT
B) carry momentum through a corner with maximum power delivery, a function partly of body roll

[nrubenstein]

I did install a set of the Tree House racing front control arm bushings and noticed a big difference. It was a much more positive feel at the wheel. I'm also running miles of caster. Still shifting gears mid corner with everything loaded up while really pushing it, doesn't upset the car. It feels awkward as all get out (I'd be exiting stage left in my track car if I tried that.) but the car doesn't move at all. Thats just running a set of Hankook RS3s in a 225. The E30 can produce plenty of grip and will feel very well planted if dialed in. I'm running -2.75 degrees camber (-3 would be better, I haven't adjusted it yet.) 0 toe, and 10.25 caster. TC Klein tuned Koni Sports, GC Spec E30 camber/caster plates, Racing Dynamics springs and stock anti-sway bars. The spring rate could be higher, but its pretty quick around an autoX course as is. In the rear I have a set of TC Klein Konis as well.

I've driven an E30 M3 with the GC coil over setup and it was the worst handling car I've driven in a long time. It was nervous and twitchy everywhere. The spring rate felt way too high, the damping was too low (it would porpoise mid corner to corner exit unless you were flawlessly smooth on the throttle) Pretty much it was terrible. Yes, it needed an alignment, but it needed other tuning as well. It was a night and day difference between my friends car and mine on the same set of on/off ramps. In my opinion, the only thing the cheap coil overs have going for them over standard springs and dampers is that you can corner balance the car, but I'd guess very few of you want to drive around in a car that sits lopsided all the time. Sure, you can lower the hell out of the car, but by doing that you have reduced your suspension travel to nil, and really screwed up the geometry of it. Unless you need remote reservoirs, with adjustable rebound and compression damping as well as fully adjustable ride height (the ability to go up as well as down) and you are willing to have them rebuilt every year, coil overs are a waste of $ especially since you don't have them in the rear anyway. (If you really need them, you will do the mods to allow the rears, and the car won't be driven on the street anyway.)

Just my $0.02,
Will

This is, of course, the challenge with coilovers. They give you extra latitude to screw up your car.

That said, that's a case of someone setting up the car poorly. That has nothing to do with the coilovers per se.

[nrubenstein]

Hey guys OP is notorious for being butthurt so lets take it slow with him 8-) <3



Dave what is the difference between being "planted" and "handling". Because from my chair here, it seems they are the same and the usual answers apply on how to improve it. Just wondering, don't get mad tho.

Planted is a handling characteristic. A good handling car is not necessarily "planted."

[davem]

Dave what is the difference between being "planted" and "handling". Because from my chair here, it seems they are the same and the usual answers apply on how to improve it. Just wondering, don't get mad tho.

Automobile handling and vehicle handling are descriptions of the way wheeled vehicles perform transverse to their direction of motion, particularly during cornering and swerving. It also includes their stability when moving in steady state condition.

my bad, i was more interested in the bolded definition, I never knew "handling" meant anything more than the first part.

[BlackbirdM3]

I did install a set of the Tree House racing front control arm bushings and noticed a big difference. It was a much more positive feel at the wheel. I'm also running miles of caster. Still shifting gears mid corner with everything loaded up while really pushing it, doesn't upset the car. It feels awkward as all get out (I'd be exiting stage left in my track car if I tried that.) but the car doesn't move at all. Thats just running a set of Hankook RS3s in a 225. The E30 can produce plenty of grip and will feel very well planted if dialed in. I'm running -2.75 degrees camber (-3 would be better, I haven't adjusted it yet.) 0 toe, and 10.25 caster. TC Klein tuned Koni Sports, GC Spec E30 camber/caster plates, Racing Dynamics springs and stock anti-sway bars. The spring rate could be higher, but its pretty quick around an autoX course as is. In the rear I have a set of TC Klein Konis as well.

I've driven an E30 M3 with the GC coil over setup and it was the worst handling car I've driven in a long time. It was nervous and twitchy everywhere. The spring rate felt way too high, the damping was too low (it would porpoise mid corner to corner exit unless you were flawlessly smooth on the throttle) Pretty much it was terrible. Yes, it needed an alignment, but it needed other tuning as well. It was a night and day difference between my friends car and mine on the same set of on/off ramps. In my opinion, the only thing the cheap coil overs have going for them over standard springs and dampers is that you can corner balance the car, but I'd guess very few of you want to drive around in a car that sits lopsided all the time. Sure, you can lower the hell out of the car, but by doing that you have reduced your suspension travel to nil, and really screwed up the geometry of it. Unless you need remote reservoirs, with adjustable rebound and compression damping as well as fully adjustable ride height (the ability to go up as well as down) and you are willing to have them rebuilt every year, coil overs are a waste of $ especially since you don't have them in the rear anyway. (If you really need them, you will do the mods to allow the rears, and the car won't be driven on the street anyway.)

Just my $0.02,
Will

[Falconer]

Hey guys OP is notorious for being butthurt so lets take it slow with him 8-) <3

kind of an odd reply given that the discussion that followed touched on more than just suspension



I know my car is sorted brah, this is more about discussion than modding my car. I also know that H&R sports are soft, get back to your notes! :up:



interdasting, I still have that e36 rack sitting in storage

Dave what is the difference between being "planted" and "handling". Because from my chair here, it seems they are the same and the usual answers apply on how to improve it. Just wondering, don't get mad tho.