Need to put 5 point harnesses in and don't want roll bar or cage

[Chubtone]

I picked up an e30 and want to do some track days with it. One of the groups I run with requires any car on R compound tires and lots of modifications to run 5 point harnesses.

I had a street legal track car that had a full cage and it was just a nightmare trying to deal with that thing. I don't even want to put a roll bar in this car. I want to be able to take my kids for a fun drive AND also be able to throw in some 5 point harnesses for track days.

I saw that Sparco make a harness bar for $400. Does anyone else make one? It would be cool to have one that you can move up out of the way against the headliner when you don't need it and then drop it down into position when you do need it and pull the shoulder harnesses in and out of it.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks

[Pantless Spency]

have fun dying if you filp your car over.

[Chubtone]

have fun dying if you filp your car over.

I'm not sure this car can get going fast enough to roll. :D

[Pantless Spency]

well if it does make sure you cage it hahaha

[Raxe]

It sure can, and they don't exactly fare well in a rollover situation...

[Mafiaracers]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that shoulder harnesses, if not used with a harness bar/mounted properly can compress the spine in the event of a front impact. ie. running them over the top of the seat and straight down to the floor...as you fly forward, the seat back will compress and so will your back. Vs. proper seat and mounting procedure.

I'd bet you're safer with a stock seat and seatbelt than stock seat and 4pt. harness.

[Bimmerman325i]

Simple. You either run a real roll bar (since you said street car), or you find another group to do events with. There is no safe way to run 5pt belts unless you go all the way down the rabbit hole: fixed back seats, roll bar/cage, and 5/6pt harnesses. This is an all or nothing item, not doable in stages, and costs a lot of money to do properly.

[jlevie]

The simple solution would be to not run R comps. But if you are going to run R comps, take Bimmerman325i's advice and go all the way. As he said a cage and race seat is pre-requisite for a a harness, which should be a six point. And include a HANS device in the mix.

[Chubtone]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have been running track events since 1997. I have done probably 50-60 time trials and DE's with PCA (with whom I am an instructor) and POC and one with the Alfa Club. I took TTOD with the Alfa Club.;) I have probably done another 60-80 autocrosses in that time. These are events that probably averaged 80-100 cars per event. I have never seen a single car roll or even go onto it's side, though I did hear about an RS America rolling at a POC event with a student and instructor in it with stock seats, belts and no bar or cage with no injuries. So one car in 15 years with probably 10,000 entrants combined.

I guess the main thing is I want to know how this car feels on the track before I decide to pour a bunch of time and money into it. My last track car was 2100lbs and 250hp so it was very fast. I daily drive an e36 M3 so I was considering another of those when this e30 with lots of suspension and brake mods fell into my hands. It's a pretty clean e30 and I don't want to ruin its streetability or re-sale by drilling a bunch of holes in the floor for harnesses or a roll bar and then finding out I want to go faster.

I guess I could look for a group with more relaxed safety rules, but I have a bunch of friends in these other groups that I want to run with and hang out with.

I do appreciate the advice though. I am taking it all in and weighing my options. One of those options is still selling the car.

[jlevie]

It appears that you have the experience (and probably the skills) to drive a car at 10/10's. While you may have never had a bad experience on track, you aren't immune to the possibility. There is always the possibility of equipment failure, something that someone else does, or a momentary lapse in judgement. Any of those can put you into a wall at high velocity. There is no such thing as being over prepared when it comes to safety.

Having survived a really bad accident on track (destroying a car in the process) that wasn't my fault and where I did nothing wrong and knowing of others that the driver could not have prevented, I'm a big fan of all the protection I can get. Granted those were in W2W racing, but it can happen in a DE or TT. When things go wrong they can go really wrong in a really bad way. If there is a wall near the consequences can be serious if the car & safety gear isn't up to what incident demands.

If you want to go really fast, do it in a car that; a) you can "walk away from" without much remorse or financial loss, and b) that provides the maximum protection for the driver. That pretty much means a dedicated track car with the full complement of safety gear. Go all the way or stay at home.

[Chubtone]

Jim,
You are a NASA and BMWCCA instructor. Don't you routinely see people at driving schools and time trials with those groups that don't have the full compliment of safety gear? I guess they don't also have R compound tires, so I understand that is an issue.

My goal for this car is something that I can drive to an event without feeling like I just went 5 rounds with Anderson Silva and then enjoy at the event and then drive home. In all those events with PCA and POC and with my 3 other friends doing all those events, so say a total of 400 events, one of us needed to come home on a trailer ONE TIME. I also want to be able to take a fun run through the canyons when I get a chance. I know that once I put a cage in my last car, I didn't evven want to get into and out of that damn thing because it was such a pain :)

[Bimmerman325i]

Jim,
You are a NASA and BMWCCA instructor. Don't you routinely see people at driving schools and time trials with those groups that don't have the full compliment of safety gear? I guess they don't also have R compound tires, so I understand that is an issue.

My goal for this car is something that I can drive to an event without feeling like I just went 5 rounds with Anderson Silva and then enjoy at the event and then drive home. In all those events with PCA and POC and with my 3 other friends doing all those events, so say a total of 400 events, one of us needed to come home on a trailer ONE TIME. I also want to be able to take a fun run through the canyons when I get a chance. I know that once I put a cage in my last car, I didn't evven want to get into and out of that damn thing because it was such a pain :)

You either do it all or none. Instructors will not ride in your car if you do not have a proper safety setup. If an instructor is willing to get into a car with a half-assed safety setup, they are an incompetent assclown. You are an instructor, you should know better than this.

Since you want to drive the car on the street, do a roll bar, keep your 3pt belts for DD use, and swap to the harnesses for track use.

[pandaboo911]

Dude, don't be dumb and get a rollbar if you're going to race. You don't necessarily need to be going fast to roll the car.