HHO Technology

[eur04lif3]

Hello R3Vers,

I though i'd start a thread here to see what some of you might know, have experience or opinions about this technology.

I've been introduced to this technology by my father that is a trucker by trade, and has heard about these systems from fellow truckers.

I'm on the fence with this idea, however i see how this can work. It does make sense that adding hydrogen(obviously very flammable) before the intake(which is controlled) and mixed with O2/fuel ....will result in a greater explosion.
The part where i'm most skeptical is what this "greater" explosion will do the the stock internals to lets say, my m42.
Also, based on some minimal research that i've done...the efficiency gains don't seem to be too great, max 10%.

Anyways, let the debate/thoughts begin.


Some resources:

http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2005/11/69529

http://www.hhokitsdirect.com/HHO-Generators.php

http://www.safehho.com/hho-technology.html

Good day all.

[MattAvino]

I should make a sealed electrolysis machine, put it in my trunk, and puff the hydrogen into my intake.

[eur04lif3]

I should make a sealed electrolysis machine, put it in my trunk, and puff the hydrogen into my intake.

Youtube got a few of these DIY's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg0COr0xDLk

[gtdragon980]

I've always wondered how safe it would be to do this for our cars, and how much benefit we would gain from it. Seems easy enough to make a rig, just making sure it is safe for our engines, is my concern.

[Massimo]

lol. Well the point is the get more mpg obviously. So my question is how much dose a bottle of hydrogen cost, and dose it the mpg out way the cost of the hydrogen.

There are lots of things like that try this one for example.

http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au....aspx?ID=About

They claim a jump from 800ft/lb to 1500ft/lb on nissan patrols. From what I have heard it works but not to those claims, you still need to pay for diesel and gas so the only benifit is the power increase.

[jlevie]

The flaw with an HHO generator is that that it consumes more power than you can get out of burning the hydrogen & oxygen it produces.

[willworkfore30s]

Built a few of them at work. No matter which way we sliced it, it always ended up not being cost effective in the long run. We were set to make a production fun of about 30 but interest fizzled out after like 6

[MattAvino]

dose a bottle of hydrogen cost, and dose it the mpg out way the cost

*does
*outweigh

[eur04lif3]

I've always wondered how safe it would be to do this for our cars, and how much benefit we would gain from it. Seems easy enough to make a rig, just making sure it is safe for our engines, is my concern.

A friend of mine and i were thinking of just doing a test on a cheap car first, i know this system works...but for how long till you seize a motor.

The flaw with an HHO generator is that that it consumes more power than you can get out of burning the hydrogen & oxygen it produces.

I can see that. Any particular sources where your basing your consumption ratio?

Built a few of them at work. No matter which way we sliced it, it always ended up not being cost effective in the long run. We were set to make a production fun of about 30 but interest fizzled out after like 6

What efficiency gains did you guy's systems were getting? Could you elaborate more about your guys findings while making them?

[willworkfore30s]

Its been a few years and I don't remember the numbers. I remember that we were running one of them on a 02 jag. The computer kept compensating for it and messing up the air-fuel ratio. For some reason 30% efficiency is sticking in my mind but that could be way way off.

[Massimo]

*does
*outweigh

Thanks buddy. Thought the world was going to come to a stand still then.

[mrsleeve]

H2 has about 36,000 BTU of energy per LIQUID gallon, Diesel about 137,000 BTUs per gallon


Now it takes about 85 KWh to make 1kg of liqid H2 (not including the compression) . 1 Gallon of liquid H2 weighs about .25Kg so 85*.25 = 21.25 KWh to make a gallon of Liquid H2.

Now 1 BTU = 0.000293071070172222 KWh. So we take 36,000BTU (gross in a liquid gallon of H2 remember) *0.000239 = 10.5 KWh of GROSS energy. To put it simply you have more than DOUBLE the INPUT energy that you will get back out. This is assuming you are going to use a gallon of H2 per gallon of Diesel.

If you want to go NET power ( as we all know the ICE is only 33% efficient at converting to usable work energy) you have 12,000 BTU * .0000239 = 3.51KWh of work.


So there 8 times more energy into it than you will get back out. NOT COST EFFECTIVE for a 10% gain in efficiency


Here we go with some more math assume a 20mpg and $4 a gallon Diesel

400(cents) / 20 (miles) = 20 cents a mile fuel cost

20 * .1(boost in mpg due to H2) = 2mpg

2mpg * 20 (cents a mile) = 40 cents a gallon saved


Average cost of a KWH of electricity in the US in 2011 12 cents a KWh

12 cents * 21.25 (KWH to make a liquid gallon of H2) = 255 cents.

Ok assume a 30% boost.

so you gain 6mpg or save $1.20. per gallon of diesel used.

still spending a $2.55 to save that 1.20



In closing there will be $2.55 in electric power used, for you to save 40 cents or $1.20 in your car, every 22 - 26 miles you travel.


Yeah HHO is a great Idea

[GaryE30]

The flaw with an HHO generator is that that it consumes more power than you can get out of burning the hydrogen & oxygen it produces.

/thread

I've researched it before

[Fusion]

Yes, your car will run on hydrogen (properly tuned etc.).



No, you can't make it while driving.

I had the calculations somewhere. The amount of hydrogen you can produce with those contraptions probably wouldn't power a lawnmower for more than a few moments. You could probably run a nitro RC car on it, but the nitro RC car wouldn't be able to carry it.
Same problem with a regular car, the "hydrogen plant" would have to be in the back of a van probably, creating a large amount of hydrogen. Problem is, the engine would not be able to provide the el. current to power it.

[jlevie]

I can see that. Any particular sources where your basing your consumption ratio?

Depending on the ionic content of the water and the type of electrodes used the efficiency of a cell might be, at best, around 80%. Under perfect laboratory conditions it might reach 94%.