5 lug swap ready to roll...what am I missing? (pics)

[lukasbmw]

Here:
Front right hub assembly with brakes
Front left hub assembly with brakes
E36 front H&R/bilstien
E30 new front strut mounts
Front Tie rods (E36)
Rear left trailing arm with brakes
Rear right trailing arm with brakes
535i Diff output flanges

Ordered:
Trailing arm bushings
12 new half shaft bolts for diff
2 new collar nuts
New rotors (brembo)
New pads (pagid)
Brake sensors
Rotor retaining screws
Anti rattle clips
Tie rod replacement hardware
E46 M3 rear shock mounts
SuperBlue Brake fluid
M3 offset bushings

Up in the air:
custom control arm bushing brackets

I guess i'll have to have the new TA bushings pressed into the TA. Same goes for the M3 offset bushings and custom bushing brackets. (lollipops)

The stance of the rear should not change since I am keeping my bilstien/H&R E30 stuff. I am slightly worried that ride height in the front may be different but hopefully it will look OK. If not what are the remedies?

By the way, are we sure E36 M3 rear suspension won't fit? Below are pics of H&R springs and Bilstien shocks for the E36 M3...they look identical to the E30 stuff:

[Super Eta]

:P

Are those M3 springs?
If so i might take first dibs on them thats if you dont want them

Ryan, who is jealous

[M3 Ryan]

:P

Are those M3 springs?
If so i might take first dibs on them thats if you dont want them

Ryan, who is jealous

those are NOT M3 springs... nothing like them in fact.. at least not E30 M3 springs, but you have peiced together a kit from different cars, so who knows...

[lukasbmw]

At the end of the swap one of two thigns will happen:

1. I'll have to use my E30 Bilstien shocks and springs in the rear and E36 M3 Bilstien struts and springs in the front leaving me with the following leftovers:

Front stock M roadster struts and springs
Front E30 Bilstien shocks and H&R springs

(This is likley)

2. I'll find a way to get the E36 rear stuff to fit leaving me with:

A set of H*R springs and Bilstien sports for the E30
Front stock M roadster struts and springs.

No one call dibs on anything yet please. All my stuff will go on ebay.

[Spaz]

Ebay?!?! MAN

[DBurke]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but E36 front suspension is going to have some jacked up geometry. The front of the car is going to raise and lower when you turn the wheel. If you watch the 'bay you'd have seen a complete 5 lug swap w/o rotors and pads for $500. Put all the chit on Ebay.

I do not doubt that you can get that pile o'parts on your car. It WILL drive like chit. Save yourself some trouble and busted knuckles.

At the end of the swap one of two thigns will happen:

1. I'll have to use my E30 Bilstien shocks and springs in the rear and E36 M3 Bilstien struts and springs in the front leaving me with the following leftovers:

Front stock M roadster struts and springs
Front E30 Bilstien shocks and H&R springs

(This is likley)

2. I'll find a way to get the E36 rear stuff to fit leaving me with:

A set of H*R springs and Bilstien sports for the E30
Front stock M roadster struts and springs.

No one call dibs on anything yet please. All my stuff will go on ebay.

[AdamF 88iS]

The full body E36 rear suspension is completely different in design from the E30. You cannot install it on your car. Z and TI cars use E30 style rear due to space limitations.

[lukasbmw]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but E36 front suspension is going to have some jacked up geometry. The front of the car is going to raise and lower when you turn the wheel. If you watch the 'bay you'd have seen a complete 5 lug swap w/o rotors and pads for $500. Put all the chit on Ebay.

I do not doubt that you can get that pile o'parts on your car. It WILL drive like chit. Save yourself some trouble and busted knuckles.

What are you talking about? The front is a direct bolt on. This is a tried and tested way to get 5 lug on the E30. How the hell is putting E36 stuff on the front going to make the car rise and lower when I turn the wheel? The only Geometry problem will be centering the wheel in the wheel well and this is solved with custom control arm brackets and M3 offset bushings.

Adam, that is what I heard. I just wanted to double check as the rear E36 parts looked identical to the E30 stuff.

[DBurke]

I'd guess you are talking about the Z'ville conversion. Have you ever been around one of those? The wheel does some funky chit when it turns, I promise. The only tried and true 5 lug swap for an E30 comes off the M3.

[UNHCLL]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but E36 front suspension is going to have some jacked up geometry. The front of the car is going to raise and lower when you turn the wheel. If you watch the 'bay you'd have seen a complete 5 lug swap w/o rotors and pads for $500. Put all the chit on Ebay.

I do not doubt that you can get that pile o'parts on your car. It WILL drive like chit. Save yourself some trouble and busted knuckles.

What are you talking about? The front is a direct bolt on. This is a tried and tested way to get 5 lug on the E30. How the hell is putting E36 stuff on the front going to make the car rise and lower when I turn the wheel? The only Geometry problem will be centering the wheel in the wheel well and this is solved with custom control arm brackets and M3 offset bushings.

Adam, that is what I heard. I just wanted to double check as the rear E36 parts looked identical to the E30 stuff.

Have you seen the issues with the Alpina E30 on e-bay.de where they are installing e36 5-lug in the front?

Your wheel is going to sit wayy far back in the wheel well.

see here: http://www.schwarztwo.de/e30/fotost/f00050/06.jpg

compared to stock: http://www.schwarztwo.de/e30/fotost/f00050/04.jpg

The offset control arm bushings are not going to be sufficient to counter that issue.
e36 and e30 control arms are the same.. so thats not going to solve it either.

????

Chris

[lukasbmw]

The control arm bracket is machined. The bushing helps even more. The wheel ends up centered. Take it from a guy who did it...



Derek's writeup:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~

M Roadster/Coupe Suspension conversion on E30

This whole project started with an email from a friend down in Texas letting me know he had an M Roadster suspension he had purchased for his car that he was looking to sell. His change of direction led to the same for me.

It arrived on a pallet, two front spindles complete out to the brakes and two trailing arms from half shaft to brakes. There was also a nicely powdercoated black e30 6cyl rear crossmember which would be required for the conversion.

He told me he had the control arm bushing brackets on the way, as soon as he was able to finish machining them. This turns out to be about the only custom part of the entire setup. I got a caliper out and measured an additional 6mm was machined out of both the bolt hole and the slot toward the bushing side of the holes. This enables you to slide the bracket further away from the centerline of the car which centers the wheel in the wheel well. The offset M3 control arm bushing is used for this application.

Other than the machining on the brackets, the entire front end build was simply remove and replace. I just used a pickle fork to separate the tie rods as well as the control arm ball joints, because I was replacing them and not concerned about boot damage. I replaced the sway at the same time with the Ireland Engineering 25mm tubular sway complete with mounting point reinforcement kit. This reinforcement requires removing one of the front crossmember bolts, and appears to be a very sturdy mount. Below is a picture of the hardware that comes with the sways.

The lower control arms went into the bushings with a bit of force and some dish soap. I took some advice from some of the DTM Power guys and put my floor jack under the ball joint and put pressure on it so I could tighten the crossmember ball joint down. I also replaced the tie rods with the E36 tie rods, as they are a bit beefier. It was probably not necessary to go with these, but they werent much more so I just did it.

Here is a shot with just the tie rod, sway and control arm in place. Note the steering boots are not attached, protective caps still over boots and my super clean work environment.

After all of this was in place, I was ready to attach the modified E36 M3 Bilstein Sport struts with the Ground Control Coilovers and Camber Plates. Below is a shot of them. It pretty much just took a bunch of time and a good hacksaw blade. After sawing the perches off, I used a file to square up the shoulder and remove any high spots. Below is a shot of the modified struts.

With all of these pieces in place, I was able to do a trial fit with the complete spindle. I havent messed with the front sway links yet.

Here is a shot of it straight on.

You can contact me at derekbkisler@galesburg.net if you have any questions or would like further information.

Photos:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/derek350i/lst?.dir=/web+pics&.view=t

[Stu]

The E36 stuff will fit in the front, and I have talked extensively with Jay Moore at Ground Control about it, and it will work without problems.

[65Matt]

First of all,
THANK YOU FOR SOLID TECH ON THE 5 LUG SWAP!!!!!

I am a little concerned about the 6mm machined out of the control arm bracket. It would seem that if you stood on the brakes, the bracket could slide back to it's original position. That slip could cause a toe-out condition that would be pretty scary. Is there a possibility of using E36 control arm brackets?[/b]

[lukasbmw]

That is an excellent concern and an even better question. I wonder who knows...

[65Matt]

I looked on my ETK last night and the control arm bracket is the same for the E30 and E36. If the bracket is made of steel, you could just plug weld the existing holes and drill new ones in the right spot. If the brackets are made of cast iron, it would be harder.