Help me sort out my early model coupe (wheels, bumpers, etc)

[fiveightandten]

I recently picked up this '86 325es. At 69K miles, it's in pretty nice shape and well sorted mechanically. But it's in dire need of wheels, suspension, and a bumper swap. I'm looking for some help with this stuff.

Wheels/Suspension:
I won't be rolling the fenders. I'm leaning towards something like a 16" RS rep (ESM 002).
-It seems like 16x8 ET20 is the go-to size for decent fitment with stock fenders. What sized tires can I fit under there in the front and rear with the early rear quarters? I'd like some meat in the back if I can fit it.
-What springs would you recommend for an early model? A little tuck is ok, but I don't want my pan on the ground. The car has to be drivable on our terrible CT and NY roads.

Here are some pics of my E36 M3, to give you an idea of what I consider an acceptable ride height.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=421518

Bumpers:
I'm leaning towards a Euro bumper swap, but i'd like a proper front valance and lip. What parts do I need to pull this off and have it look proper? Ie. what fogs mount into a Euro valance and where can I source this stuff? I have a lead on the bumpers. We'll see how that pans out.


Here's what i'm working with. Apologies for the terrible pictures. It's 10ºF here in CT, and this thing will be sitting on bottlecaps and diving boards for another few weeks until it's warm enough to do some work. Getting hosed off at the self-serve...

[yungmike]

When you get your bumper situation settled, i'd like to take that current setup you have on your es. Let me know and best of luck!

[agent]

Why remove the bumper and valance setup you have? It's less common than euro bumpers.

[anokES]

Please for the love of god don't swap you're bumpers

[Swanny]

Has this turned into the diving board appreciation gang? I agree with the other 3 members. Keep the set up as it is far less common now to have a stock exterior, especially on the ES models for some reason. I guess people think bumper swaps make them faster?

[F34R]

Tuck the bumpers, and don't listen to Swanny...untucked dive boards are ugly.

[dannyyisntt]

Needs euros

[fiveightandten]

Wow, a lot of diving board lovers in here. Fair enough, and thanks for the comments. Let's talk wheels then.

Can I get close to something like this without the roll? I know the front is not possible on stock fenders. But i'm looking for that kind of drop and in the ballpark of that sort of fitment (though obviously less offset in the front).

Thoughts on offset/size and springs?

[mtech325]

There's a few things to consider with the red car you posted. If memory serves correct, that car is on adapters, so while the 16x8 style 5's are et20 or so, they are using at minimum an 18mm adapter, possibly 25mm, so the actual offset is probably somewhere in the et0-5mm range. For a mild drop, you can get by with H&R sport or race springs. The early model cars also can pull off the Ireland Engineering Stage 3 springs without the "reverse rake" issue. I'm guessing you're looking for a daily driver suspension, so Koni's or Bilstein sports are a good option. Otherwise there's Ground Control or TC Kline coilover kits if you want something a bit more agressive.

For the wheels, you may as well get some ESM 16x8 if not 16x9 (there have been issues with the bolt patterns and how they're drilled, so I'd do a bit of research on them first!). Tires will be 225/45/16 for the 8 inch wheels, and 16x9 wheels tend to use 215/40/16.

If you can swing it, keep the diving boards! With some polishing of the bumpers and repainting of the trim, the diving board look can look pretty tidy (just my two cents, but I'm partial to the front snowplow look ;D).

PS, thanks for all of your write ups and DIYs on the m3forum. I have a 96' 328is with an s52 and other chassis/suspension goodies, and have used the info to build my m3 wannabe-mobile. I look forward to seeing a quality build.

--Joey

[fiveightandten]

There's a few things to consider with the red car you posted. If memory serves correct, that car is on adapters, so while the 16x8 style 5's are et20 or so, they are using at minimum an 18mm adapter, possibly 25mm, so the actual offset is probably somewhere in the et0-5mm range. For a mild drop, you can get by with H&R sport or race springs. The early model cars also can pull off the Ireland Engineering Stage 3 springs without the "reverse rake" issue. I'm guessing you're looking for a daily driver suspension, so Koni's or Bilstein sports are a good option. Otherwise there's Ground Control or TC Kline coilover kits if you want something a bit more agressive.

For the wheels, you may as well get some ESM 16x8 if not 16x9 (there have been issues with the bolt patterns and how they're drilled, so I'd do a bit of research on them first!). Tires will be 225/45/16 for the 8 inch wheels, and 16x9 wheels tend to use 215/40/16.

If you can swing it, keep the diving boards! With some polishing of the bumpers and repainting of the trim, the diving board look can look pretty tidy (just my two cents, but I'm partial to the front snowplow look ;D).

PS, thanks for all of your write ups and DIYs on the m3forum. I have a 96' 328is with an s52 and other chassis/suspension goodies, and have used the info to build my m3 wannabe-mobile. I look forward to seeing a quality build.

--Joey

Thanks for the reply and the info Joey. I'm leaning towards ESM 002 16x8 ET20. So you think a 225/45/16 will fit up front without a roll? A good friend of mine is running 001s in that fitment with 205/45/16. I'll have to take a look at his car and see what kind of room is left. Though, it's a late model 'vert, so not exactly the same thing.

Cool to hear you have an E36 as well. Though even the M-badged US E36 cars are wannabe M3s, so I wouldn't be so hard on yours. ;)

Thanks again for the info.

[nyChris]

I'm leaning towards ESM 002 16x8 ET20. So you think a 225/45/16 will fit up front without a roll?

That setup will absolutely need the lip of the fenders rolled flat. I am running 16x8 et24 in the rear with 215/45 kuhmo xs on my early model, paired with ground control 440/650 springs. My car is sitting so that there is about 5mm of gap between the tire and the fender. The wheels are just about flush with the side of the car (et20 will bring you flush). In my experience you will rub your sidewall under acceleration, and bumps without a roll. Softer springs will make matters worse.

225/45/16 also has a larger circumference than stock. On a stock motor all you'll be doing is making that eta work just a bit more, and the result will be your car becoming slower than it already is.

[fiveightandten]

That setup will absolutely need the lip of the fenders rolled flat. I am running 16x8 et24 in the rear with 215/45 kuhmo xs on my early model, paired with ground control 440/650 springs. My car is sitting so that there is about 5mm of gap between the tire and the fender. The wheels are just about flush with the side of the car (et20 will bring you flush). In my experience you will rub your sidewall under acceleration, and bumps without a roll. Softer springs will make matters worse.

225/45/16 also has a larger circumference than stock. On a stock motor all you'll be doing is making that eta work just a bit more, and the result will be your car becoming slower than it already is.

Thanks for the data point Chris. This is exactly what I need to hear. Do you have any pics of your car (I didn't see any threads under your user name)?

So it looks like a 205/50/16 would be the size to run with stock fenders and 16x8 ET20. I have a friend who is running this setup on stock fenders on a late model 'vert, so it should definitely work. I had figured that the early rear could accept a larger tire and i'd go with a staggered setup. But it seems this isn't the case.

I'm not that concerned about the effective gearing change from a taller tire. The car is slow and will always be slow. If I want it to be faster, i'll throw a 24V in it. Thanks again for the info.

[Stanley Rockafella]

Has this turned into the diving board appreciation gang?

I knew things would turn around....which is why I've been hoarding alum bumpers :D

[nyChris]

Do you have any pics of your car (I didn't see any threads under your user name)?

That's the only pic I have up at the moment. Maxed out gc touring camber plates in the front as well. I will be rolling the fronts, and backs before putting the car on the road. It road great for the 15 minutes it was running. Picking up my second s52 on sunday. More setbacks then I care to remember, but this is year it gets back on the road!

[StereoInstaller1]

I knew things would turn around....which is why I've been hoarding alum bumpers :D

I hear you there! I had 6 sets, now I only have one...but I do have the iS lip and a full set of new-in-bag trim so when I do finally find an E30, it will be DBs.

TUCKED Dbs that is...LOL

To the OP: first, congrats on such a sweet fine...64K? Wow.

Let me tell you, an ETA with a 3.73 and a chip is an absolute blast to drive around town. Decent enough mileage too, its a great combo.

Second, why such an issue with rolling? Honestly, it isn't that big a deal, just use a heat gun and a proper roller. It does take a ton of heat, way more than you would expect, but you needn't flare the hell out of the fender, either.

I chickened out on the heat and ruined my paint.

Here is my old early car, was an '87 325iS. The fenders were rolled flat and stretched about half an inch. This is with a 215/40/17 but my wheels have no ET markings. Most assume these to be around 15, I don't know.



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Luke