Advice with Honda head gasket......

[rcsoundn1]

I have a thread here about my Honda woes, and its more directed at what to buy next. But this is a question about General mechanic experiences, so I will briefly outline what’s going on with this POS. I do maintain my cars, even so much as to replace all the brake fluid as required by Honda. So all routine maintenance has been done to keep this DD going. It is a common issue for these cars to have cooling issues, require HG, and its known these cooling systems are just generally temperamental. I have come here because the honda forums for this gen do not get much traffic that is helpful.
So here goes:
Here is the run down:
2005 civic sedan 1.7 5spd.
So I have been battling a coolant issue. I have already done the following:
Head gasket
Decked head, and had the head rebuilt
Thermostat
Radiator
radiator cap
hoses
Prior to the overheat TB/WP about 20k before.
The issue is that the radiator continues to push coolant out of the overflow tank, and I see evidence of this on the hoses and in the battery tray.
Compression is 120 on all 4 cyls
Leak down shows cyl 4, 2, 1 at 20% leak, and Cyl 3 at a fluttering 40%ish. I could also hear what sounded like air coming back into the spark plug area. OHC car so the plugs have a long tube they go into. From what I have read, I need another new HG. What gives! Soon after I did the 1st HG, I did have an over heat issue. No coolant in oil, or vice versa.
My questions are as follows:
1-I have read that a person before retightened the head bolts, issue resolved. Has anyone experienced that? Opinions on re-using bolts if I do a HG?
2- I am seriously considering just doing the gasket again. I used a Honda gasket the 1st time. Is there a better one to use?
3- Who has used copper coat, and what was there experience? My one friend swears by it.
4- I have hear rumors about coolant changing color/floating darker particles may mean there is exhaust gas present in the coolant and that there is a test for that? What are your experiences with that?
ANY advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance, all questions are welcome. The only thing I have not done is mess with the heater core. After the leak down test, I was more sure it was a HG.

[rcsoundn1]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[rcsoundn1]

Welp, all this now adds up to an addition of what i this is a spun rod bearing. uess I will have to dig further

[Heitzke]

My questions are as follows:
1-I have read that a person before retightened the head bolts, issue resolved. Has anyone experienced that? Opinions on re-using bolts if I do a HG?
2- I am seriously considering just doing the gasket again. I used a Honda gasket the 1st time. Is there a better one to use?
3- Who has used copper coat, and what was there experience? My one friend swears by it.
4- I have hear rumors about coolant changing color/floating darker particles may mean there is exhaust gas present in the coolant and that there is a test for that? What are your experiences with that?
ANY advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance, all questions are welcome. The only thing I have not done is mess with the heater core. After the leak down test, I was more sure it was a HG.

Reformed honda guy (k-series) here.

1) Most D-series guys seem to reuse them, sometimes several times (that's probably because they're cheap though)

2) Honda makes the best one IMO, i wouldn't use anything else

3) Both sides are super opinionated on this. I'm on the 'let the gasket work as intended' side, but plenty of guys swear by it too. So, i'm no help.

Obviously this doesn't fix your leak down test issues, but Honda coolant systems are pretty good at building big air pockets in them. Between all the other replacement parts, you've 'burped' the coolant system?

What makes you think it has spun a rod bearing too?

[Andy.B]

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-75500-Combustion-Leak-Detector/dp/B0007ZDRUI

These testers are great for diagnosing combustion to coolant passage head gasket leaks.

The alternative leaks are coolant/oil intermix (obvious to spot by the telltale milky coolant), or leaking oil/coolant out of the sides of the gasket onto the block.
I'm not well versed on honda motors, but a cracked head or block could be an issue if decking the head and replacing the gasket didn't solve the issue.

Did the leak start before or after the overheat occurred on the new head gasket?

How well have you bled the coolant? Pockets of air can lead to boiling/overflow of coolant as the air pockets try to escape.
A sure fire way to fill a coolant system is this:

http://www.amazon.com/UView-550000-Airlift-Cooling-Checker/dp/B0002SRH5G

(edit: here is a cheaper one: http://www.amazon.com/550500-AirLift...RZGV1A417BT2X4)

Provided you have shop air, it puts the coolant system under vacuum, and then utilizes that vacuum to suck coolant into the system. You can go from empty to filled coolant system with no additional bleeding necessary in under 10 minutes. Just like power brake bleeders, this is a tool that seems pricey and unnecessary until you use it, and then you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.


40% leakage is pretty high. If it's a bad head gasket, and it's leaking at 40%, you would see bubbles coming out of the coolant.

If there is air leaking out into the spark plug tube, it must be from the spark plug itself. That tube down through the valve cover seals to the top of the head. If combustion pressure is coming out there, it is coming through the spark plug threads/seat or a thoroughly destroyed plug.

[rcsoundn1]

2nd overheat happened after the new HG. I think it spun a rod because after I was setting it up, with new coolant it devloped a horendous knock, that to me seemd as though it was comming from the bottom end. No idea why it happend or how. It sat for about 10 days in my garage on jack stands, and all that I did was compression/leak down tests. I have bled the coolant system multiple times in multiple ways in the past year that I have been fighting this issue and there has been no change is symptoms. I have a video of the noise I will try to post later. I was trying to fix it to sell it, and not just pass the issue off to another person w/o either fixing it or disclosing it. If i were to disclose it the value goes way down, so fixing it was my only option. Now I am in real hot water as it is worthless, and I need to decide if I should swap motors or fix this one. I may try to look for a low milage junk yard motor but it is looking as though the cost will be lower to try to fix the rod bearings. Once I pop the pan off I will have a better idea of WTF went wrong. I guess the plus side is not I daily my vert, but that has some issues as well. I need to get my auto vert back on the road and use that. Its just been a rough few weeks here with issues with my house, and my wifes car down as well as mine. We have 4 cars and right now 1 is road worthy.

[rcsoundn1]

Click pic for short vireos

[Heitzke]

Aye, yeah that sounds pretty bad. I'm honestly surprised it's knocking that loud at idle.

I'm of no real help besides continuing to ask questions. I guess at this point, i'd yank the head back off and see if maybe the shop botched something on the head rebuild.

Seems that all your work would have fixed everything, and the head is the biggest variable to me.

[rcsoundn1]

Head was a complete rebuild about 1yr + ago. Never made a sound until I was peeping to bleed the coolant again. I just can't figure out wtf happened. That's for all the replies.
Next thing I'm doing is dropping the pan to check cyl1 rod bearing and ripping the head
Off

[rcsoundn1]

Well I took the rod caps off last night. Does not appear that it spun a rod bearing. What do you all think? Time to pop the head off..........

[flyboyx]

no. it did not do that.

[rcsoundn1]

Now I am more worried about what did go wrong, since that did not answer any questions.

[Heitzke]

So weird. Yeah the bearings all look pretty good

[rcsoundn1]

There is some copper showing, but its not bad. I realy am over this car. Wish I could just ditch it, but its not worth anything as is.

[rcsoundn1]

I may post thia question in its own thred.... and I anticipate a paticular answer. Has anyone ever re-used rod bearings that were not bad? I realize its likley a no no, but was wondering if it had aver been done and what the expirence was??