OT: Anyone own a 944? Past or present?

[euroshark]

I have a buddy who is interested in getting one, but he's scared that it's going to be super unreliable. I owned an Alfa Romeo for 3.5 years, so no German car scares me anymore :pimp: but we are curious, how do they compare to an E30 in general terms of reliability. Also, how are they to drive on a daily basis? Is the 2.5 liter 4 banger a chore to live with?

[Mr Deagle]

parts are ultra (read= ULTRA) expensive, that is all....other than that its just like any other car

[euroshark]

lol, thats everyone's standard response. I am still looking for a cheap 928 project and I have all the catalogs sitting on my desk. Parts, honest to God, are priced almost identically to similar parts for my E28. And from what I've heard, 928s are way more expensive to own than their lesser siblings.

[equate975]

I was thinking about getting one before I picked up the M, this is mainly what I found:

Parts are yeah, SUPER expensive
Needs lots of maintenance
Isn't a nice community that I could find like the e30 crowd
Not very many mods at all I could find (I inquired about converting a non-turbo to a turbo using OE parts and was laughed at)

I needed a good reliable relatively in-expensive car to maintain like another e30, so I bought an e30 m3 lol, Just couldn't help myself

[whakiewes]

Currently own a 968 which is the 944's younger brother. Overall its not bad, fairly easy to work on. Unlike BMW, everything is made in house at Porsche, no outsourcing so everything is rebuildable. Porsche will sell you a manual on how to completely dismantle and rebuild your 944/68 for $25 from the dealer. In all honesty, parts costs aren't that terribly high. Its a common misnomer about Porsche parts. What makes them different is there are few owners who work on their own cars. Porsche mechanics are inherinantly expensive because of the seldom work, so $110/hr makes anything look expensive. To give you an idea - a headgasket for my 968 is $178, waterpump is $239 rebuilt ($450 new), clutches are about $400, brake pads are $50-150 depending on the brand, etc... Really the car isn't much more expensive, if any, than my 325i.

Downsides - no parts are available at Advance Auto except plugs and oil. Pelican Parts, Paragon Products, Sunset Porsche, etc...will offer signficant discounts on prices, some at cost + 10%. Essentially if you need a simple part like a gasket, its typically a 3-4 day wait on shipping. Porsche dealers are also assholes...fact of life. They don't care, they don't want to care, and no matter what you say to the manager they will never care.

Now keep in mind that my 968 is significantly more reliable than a 944, let alone a 944 turbo. 944's require much more frequent work, mostly because the car was built by Audi. The assembly wasn't top notch like that of cars built in the Stuttgart plants such as 928's, 911's, and the 968. The 944 chassis is also very weak...not that its going to break, but its just not a torsionally rigid body. Squeaks and rattles are all the more common than in my 968 (although I guess my 968 isn't a good comparison). 944 Turbo's in general aren't very unreliable, but the abuse that they recieve is what makes them a grenade. Turbo's easily last over 100k miles (try that on an Audi S4), no real issues, but as soon as you start playing with modifications the car turns into a money pit. A good friend spun a bearing in his 944 Turbo last April or so. It turned out to be about a $5,000 exercise with us doing all the work. Pistons and rings are special because of the alusil blocks, waterpump, timing belt/balance shaft belts, clutch etc...

928's are significantly more expensive to run than lesser 944's. The easiest way to look at it is that the 928 engine is two 944 engines bolted together...so essentially double the cost! Feel free to PM if there is any specific information that is needed.

Wes

[whakiewes]

I was thinking about getting one before I picked up the M, this is mainly what I found:

Parts are yeah, SUPER expensive
Again, this is a common misnomer. It depends on where you shop, and what your buying. Some things are quite a bit more expensive than others, while some things are much less than on my BMW. Fortunately for you, your car has an S52...I would hate to get into a debate of the maintenance of my E30 M3 vs. my Porsche!

Needs lots of maintenance
This is relative. Laziness is the crying evil to this statement. There is so much information available that shows everything preventative possible that there is no reason for anything to go wrong. Timing belts, balance shaft belts, plugs, and wires are about the only things that are frequent. Clutches last less than other cars at anywhere from 50-100k miles, but everything else would easily be less than my BMW, not including later E36's and such.
Isn't a nice community that I could find like the e30 crowd

Not very many mods at all I could find (I inquired about converting a non-turbo to a turbo using OE parts and was laughed at)
Standard 944's suffer from a serious lack of power. It amazes me though that you were looking at standard 8-valve 944's and E30 M3's in the same day. Completely different cars, completely different price brackets. Compare a 944 Turbo to an E30 M3 and you will see a completely different agenda. Modifcations available would easily include - chip, airbox mod, exhaust, coil overs, upgrading to later model parts, interior work, about everything the same as an E30 M3 or E30 standard. Converting from a 944 to a 951 was laughed at because your going to spend $5000 on a 944, then $8000 making all the parts swap over correctly when you could have spent $7000 and had a 951 to start with. Its all over the internet if searches are done. Asking if a 968 or S2 can become turbo is a significantly different question and one that has been beaten to death in the past couple of months.


I needed a good reliable relatively in-expensive car to maintain like another e30, so I bought an e30 m3 lol, Just couldn't help myself
Again, thankfully you bought an E30 M3 with an S52. I spent about $700/month on my E30 M3 to keep it in decent shape. I could have easily bumped it to $1000 a month and kept it in stellar shape. My Porsche costs me less than $200/month to maintain. I spend about $1000 a month on it doing things that aren't needed but will help its resale and help my feelings about it. Not a good comparison!

[equate975]

Well I was just saying what I found :)

I didn't buy an e30 m3 with a s52, I had the s14 for a long time before a shitty road cracked my pan.

Who wouldn't buy a running e30 m3 for $5700? :) Granted the car had the piss beat out of it and had 216k when I bought it, but damn! I couldn't pass her up lol

[TwoJ's]

$239 for a rebuilt water pump? Shit.

[backtrail69]

Ill stick to my 20 year old BMWs...

[Simon S]

once upon a time, i wanted a:
german
two door
r/w/d
bucket seats
manual trans
'sporty'
'cool'
well-styled
solid chassis
fun-to-drive
car

I hate how I love how 944s look - it's frustrating to me. I LOVE how they look. I love phone-dial wheels. I love contours of the body. It's art to me. I love how chassis incorporates galvanization. For me: good handling > powerful motor.

In initial [fun project car] purchase pursuits, I found this fabulous 944 - god it was nice. (good body, well-maintained, nice interior) So fun to drive. (took for test drive)

What became deal-killers for me included 'cockpit'. One gets in and out of these cars with some effort. (yeah, i'm getting old) and while you're in there, you get to look at this cheap-ass looking dash.

I will never regret purchasing an e30 over that 944 - aftermarket support alone makes an e30 more fun to tinker with. OEM is great on a well-made car, but so are alternatives to 'factory' parts.

Here's a good nutshell: 944s - fabulous cars to 'borrow' - disappointing cars to own.

e30s have an impeccable balance to them - in so many ways – including being a nice car to own

[whakiewes]

once upon a time, i wanted a:
german
two door
r/w/d
bucket seats
manual trans
'sporty'
'cool'
well-styled
solid chassis
fun-to-drive
car

I hate how I love how 944s look - it's frustrating to me. I LOVE how they look. I love phone-dial wheels. I love contours of the body. It's art to me. I love how chassis incorporates galvanization. For me: good handling > powerful motor.

In initial [fun project car] purchase pursuits, I found this fabulous 944 - god it was nice. (good body, well-maintained, nice interior) So fun to drive. (took for test drive)

What became deal-killers for me included 'cockpit'. One gets in and out of these cars with some effort. (yeah, i'm getting old) and while you're in there, you get to look at this cheap-ass looking dash.

I will never regret purchasing an e30 over that 944 - aftermarket support alone makes an e30 more fun to tinker with. OEM is great on a well-made car, but so are alternatives to 'factory' parts.

Here's a good nutshell: 944s - fabulous cars to 'borrow' - disappointing cars to own.

e30s have an impeccable balance to them - in so many ways – including being a nice car to own

Definantly will have to agree with some of this. The cockpit on the car is really cramped compared to like BMW's, but put in its place its a completely different car. Sports car vs. touring car IMO. The 944 only has a backseat to keep the DOT happy...in all honesty it needs it to keep the chassis stiff enough as well. I will say the driving position of the 944 is far superior to the BMW's though...everything is more ergonomical IMO except the window switches.

When refering to the dash though, I don't completely agree. I have read this same comment in many articles of the date and I just don't find the credibility behind them. My 968 I will give credit to, as in 1992 it had the japanese sports cars, E36, etc... to compete with. But the 944 had the E30, MB 16V, and a few rarer cars like Opels and such. I think the dash was well ahead of its time in the comparison to those cars. Its rounded, ergonomical, and simple enough to keep the most retarded users happy. I really like the dash in my 968 compared to other cars I have owned.

I came to the realization that the 968 is not a daily driver...no Porsche is. No matter how hard you try to make them that way, they always bite back. Great weekend/second cars. The fun for dollar factor of a 944 is hard to beat, especially if you get a powerful Turbo or S2. If its an only car though, a nice BMW will run circles around it!

Wes

[AdamF 88iS]

My experience with those cars:

My first and foremost complaint is that they are very cramped inside. My grandma had one with the stock steering wheel and I literally couldn't drive it because my knees would hit the bottom of the non-adjustable wheel. I didn't get to really drive one until my buddy put a momo wheel in his turbo.

Certain things can be a royal pain in the ass to work on, but that's true for any car.

Last thing is the handling. Everybody raves about the car being 50/50 weight distribution, but I wasn't feeling it. They way they made it 50/50 by hanging the tranny way out the back of the car. This makes the car a bit heavy at it's extremes and it feels like doesn't want to change directions in low speed tight turns. It's good for long sweepers though. Personally I felt that my M3 handled a lot better and was a lot more agile feeling.

[euroshark]

I had a transaxle Alfa and it felt incredible, I've yet to experience any car that felt as tossable and eager to dive into a corner and just keep pulling, no matter how much you turned the wheel or how fast you were going.

[Mr.SWISS]

I had an 86 944, it needed waaaayy more attention that my 325i OR the beater ass sat for three years on jack stands eta. Timing belt, requires you to change a ton of seals and has a balance shaft that counter rotates= like $200 for parts+ the $249 WP. Clutch is a rubber centered disc that wears out before the damn disc and is an 8 hour fun fun job to do. And the car is still slower than an auto 325i e30.


Bottom line, 944=MONEY PIT ;)

[jmarch]

lol, thats everyone's standard response. I am still looking for a cheap 928 project and I have all the catalogs sitting on my desk. Parts, honest to God, are priced almost identically to similar parts for my E28. And from what I've heard, 928s are way more expensive to own than their lesser siblings.

There are NO cheap 928 projects. I've wanted one for years, but just can't get past the shear number of problem areas with these cars.

I like the 968 alot. However, a Boxster doesn't cost much more. The 944S2 is a nice car, but I'd hold out for a 968 if you really want a front engine Porsche.

But what do I know, I actually prefer my 325is to my old EVOIII spec E30 M3 (sorry Adam).