Are chips worth the $250?

[rwh11385]

SMT6 is $280 shipped ( http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5867 )
+1 hour on the dyno which is ~$75


I'll never win this argument, but thats fine *shrug*

Hey, before when I said the highway dyno, it was half-jokingly. ;)

Rob, I have to agree with EVOIIIM3, that for a pretty stock engine, a chip is the best bet. It would take a lot of time to get the mix as good as JC did.

EVOIIIM3,
for a mostly stock engine, spending $$$ on software such as SMT6 would probably not return the value. (But part of the attractiveness is the ability to run a MAF - which was very attractive to people like Ted, or similar software and Chris E30 Cab) Obviously a stock or JC chip would not cut the needs the a 3.0L.

Anybody have real numbers or even better a dyno graph of an m20b25 before and after a JC chip? Preferrably on an otherwise stock engine.

I could never find one. But I emailed Jim personally and he said it gave a 10hp gain around peak, so 167+10=177hp. Even though some points might have seen 15hp, only 10 at the peak. Of course, engine age and condition may affect performance. There's been a big variation of stock engine dynos on this board even. And there's also the idea that for every engine that leaves the factory, two make less HP than rated, two more, and one at what they state it as. So comparing one stock dyno run to another car with a chip isn't really useful.

btw, Jim no longer has rights to his chips......all bought by TMS.

[EVOIIIM3]

SMT6 is $280 shipped ( http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5867 )
+1 hour on the dyno which is ~$75


I'll never win this argument, but thats fine *shrug*

Check this out, from GSTuning....

FEATURES & BENEFITS OF THE SMT6
All piggy-back units are reliant on the exiting ECU to provide the fuel and ignition to the engine.  For this reason they are bound by the limitations of the existing ECU.  Fuel is typically modified by changing the load sensor or lambda sensor signal.  Ignition is done by delaying or advancing the crank angle sensors signal.  The piggy-back unit tricks the ECU into thinking that it is running under different conditions thereby allowing for a different output.

Understand this, the SMT CAN NOT go beyond the stock chips programming. All this unit does it allow you to hit maps on the chip sooner, or go into another part of the map. It can not change the basic setting of the map on the chip. Combined with a Jim C, it should give you more tuning options.

SO even a properly mapped chip will help out the SMT6.
I also highly doubt you can tune fuel + ing maps in one hour! WOT maybe, but not all the part throttle maps, they really take time and effort to tune.

Now you see if the stock chip has +- 10deg of ing timing it can change per the chip, if you install a chip that lets you change +- 15deg that you will be able to tune it more.

Now matter what, if you keep the stock ECU it will benefit from a chip!

[EVOIIIM3]

EVOIIIM3,
for a mostly stock engine, spending $$$ on software such as SMT6 would probably not return the value. (But part of the attractiveness is the ability to run a MAF - which was very attractive to people like Ted, or similar software and Chris E30 Cab) Obviously a stock or JC chip would not cut the needs the a 3.0L.

Ok, that is fine, and a known fact that if you really go beyond the stock internals you will need to change the chip, or add a aftermarket ECU. That is a given. But how many people are going to go Ted's route and build that 3.0 m20? Maybe 2-3% of 325i owners.
Most will just throw some bolt on's and be happy with it.

Ted really does need to remove his AFM, that is really holding his engine back. He is a proper candidate for the SMT6. Again, he has a lot of money invested in his motor, and this is just another step along the way. It's not his starting point, first mod like the Jim C chip

[diegom6]

SMT6 is $280 shipped ( http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5867 )
+1 hour on the dyno which is ~$75


I'll never win this argument, but thats fine *shrug*

Plus the SMT6 let you make a swapp for the MAF instead of the AFM, also you can load different setups, for example economy, normal and high performance.

[gstuning]

SMT6 is $280 shipped ( http://www.r3vlimited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5867 )
+1 hour on the dyno which is ~$75


I'll never win this argument, but thats fine *shrug*

Check this out, from GSTuning....

FEATURES & BENEFITS OF THE SMT6
All piggy-back units are reliant on the exiting ECU to provide the fuel and ignition to the engine.  For this reason they are bound by the limitations of the existing ECU.  Fuel is typically modified by changing the load sensor or lambda sensor signal.  Ignition is done by delaying or advancing the crank angle sensors signal.  The piggy-back unit tricks the ECU into thinking that it is running under different conditions thereby allowing for a different output.

Understand this, the SMT CAN NOT go beyond the stock chips programming. All this unit does it allow you to hit maps on the chip sooner, or go into another part of the map. It can not change the basic setting of the map on the chip. Combined with a Jim C, it should give you more tuning options.

SO even a properly mapped chip will help out the SMT6.
I also highly doubt you can tune fuel + ing maps in one hour! WOT maybe, but not all the part throttle maps, they really take time and effort to tune.

Whatever a chip can do the SMT can do too,,
If you run a coil pack you can run any advance you like
but the problem with the motronic is that you can only run up to a certain amount of advance,, as the ignition system can only advance so much,, the SMT can be used to advance so much as to not even get the spark trough the ignition cap and the hammer


The SMT can run as a standalone ignition system also
Allowing any igniton setting possible to the actuall ignition system,


Instead of buying another chip when you change injectors , you just do some minor tuning to the SMT unit,,
Instead of buying yet another chip when wanting some more advance with diffrent fuel or less advance

Explain how I would gain anything from installing a chip first??

Another note,,
When where those chips designed?
Has fuel quality gone up since then,,

I think I better get my friend who has my old M20B25 to get a SMT so I can actually get people to understand that having the chance to tune yourself is better then some 10year old chip design,, installing the SMT is about as tricky as installing a Chip,, just a little soldering involded,,