E92 M3 4-door

[kellie]

and no i dont like the new 4dr m3, its a waste and another step away from the original concept of the m3 (to stay on topic, sorry josh)

Everyone always talks about how the E30 was a great car for its day, and it was. But BMW can't make one great car, then keep making that car and cars exactly like it for 30 years. Ford did that and look at how successful they are.

How many E30 M3s did BMW sell? Now look at how many E46 M3s they sold. The E46 M3 was also a great car for its day, but now it's time for something new. BMW has to keep up with the times, and they have to design cars that will sell. They can't appeal to every crowd, but if you're so dissatisfied with what they're doing, go sell your E30 and buy an Elise. You wouldn't want to represent a car manufacturer when you hate every single new car they make...

And what's wrong with the SMG? I mean aside from the fact that E30s didn't come with one, therefore you feel threatened by it. It's a pretty incredible transmission. It shifts quickly and precisely, and they're a blast on the track. But you wouldn't know, since your E30 doesn't have one, huh?

Well. What am I supposed to do when I think they all look TERRIBLE? Technology galore, yes. But when they stop looking like BMWs are supposed to look like, what should I do? I can't embrace a car I think is ugly.

Tell me, what are BMWs "supposed to" look like? Boxy with round headlights? I'm sure that'd go over well in today's market. BMW designs cars for functionality. Practically every part of their cars has a purpose.

Now if you have to convince yourself that every car made after the E30 is a piece of garbage just to keep yourself from being miserable every time you see a nicer car, I understand. I'm sure it hurts to read this, but you know the new M5? It might be a huge, heavy boat full of useless technology, but it will outperform your "far superior" E30 every single time. It's okay though, everyone on R3v knows that the E30 was the greatest car ever built.

[e304me]

the newer cars may be faster, but they just dont feel as good. Which is where the fun comes from. Every generation they are slightly bigger heavier and more luxurious. And less connected to the road

[kellie]

the newer cars may be faster, but they just dont feel as good. Which is where the fun comes from. Every generation they are slightly bigger heavier and more luxurious. And less connected to the road

I don't know what "connected to the road" means. The new cars have exactly the same amount of equipment between the wheels and the steering wheel, so what's the difference?

They don't feel as good? How? Vague answers like that make me wonder if what you're saying is really based on anything other than hearsay. How many of you have actually driven a 335i or an E60 M5?

Edit: Maybe I'm expecting a bit much from people who ooh and ahh over an interior light dimming feature.

[blunttech]

I don't know what "connected to the road" means. The new cars have exactly the same amount of equipment between the wheels and the steering wheel, so what's the difference?

They don't feel as good? How? Vague answers like that make me wonder if what you're saying is really based on anything other than hearsay. How many of you have actually driven a 335i or an E60 M5?

Edit: Maybe I'm expecting a bit much from people who ooh and ahh over an interior light dimming feature.

i feel the same way he does. driving new cars is a numbing experience. get in an 02 and then get in something brand new. sure the new car is smooth and quiet and comfortable but its like you arent even driving. something like an 02 or even an e30 makes you feel like youre connected to the car and the road. like its an extension of you. not like youre sitting on a lounge chair.

[backtrail69]

I love driving my 02 it really keeps you humble to what modern technology has given everyone. Going between my 02 and my e30s is a very big jump in smoothness and refined characteristics. It is the same way between e30s and a e90. I like my e30s and 02 a lot, but I will probably own a newer smoother, nicer car later on when I can actually afford it for daily driving and long trips. I love the rawness of the older cars for spirited driving though.

[kellie]

Maybe I can't relate because I grew up in a different era and I have always driven newer cars. I guess I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think you're giving the new cars a fair chance. I doubt most of the people posting in this thread have spent much time in the newest generation of BMWs that they love to bash.

I drive dozens of new BMWs every day of the week and I find them much more pleasant to drive than old cars. There is a noticeable improvement in the way each era of BMWs drives. Tighter steering, more responsive throttle, incredible brakes, everything just feels much better...to me. But it really is like comparing apples to oranges.

[Raxe]

I also drive dozens of different BMWs every day, probably close to 300 individually owned BMWs a month. The new cars are nice in that everything feels like it should, there's nothing out of place. They all start smooth, run quiet, don't smell, etc.

However, they are becomming more and more generic and meaningless. You drive an E90? So does the lady who doesn't have a clue what BMW stands for and thinks it's Japanese. Old BMW's carry personality, you don't see nice examples every day and often the owners of the nice ones are knowledgeable on the subject. Try talking to the average owner of an E60 5 series, I'll bet he couldn't tell you anything about the car other than the options he ordered. BMW is no longer an enthusiast brand, they are an image brand. You buy a BMW now because it shouts success, taste and class. The really special group are the people who care about the old cars, who keep them on the road out of dedication and passion for what they are. Talk to the owner of a gorgeous E30 and he'll probably be able to tell you all about it. These are the people I consider to be true BMW owners, not the guys who drop a wad of cash for a fancy looking new car to show off.

That went way offtopic, but it's the reason why I prefer the older cars over the newer ones.

[golde30]

However, they are becomming more and more generic and meaningless. You drive an E90? So does the lady who doesn't have a clue what BMW stands for and thinks it's Japanese. Old BMW's carry personality, you don't see nice examples every day and often the owners of the nice ones are knowledgeable on the subject. Try talking to the average owner of an E60 5 series, I'll bet he couldn't tell you anything about the car other than the options he ordered. BMW is no longer an enthusiast brand, they are an image brand. You buy a BMW now because it shouts success, taste and class. The really special group are the people who care about the old cars, who keep them on the road out of dedication and passion for what they are. Talk to the owner of a gorgeous E30 and he'll probably be able to tell you all about it. These are the people I consider to be true BMW owners, not the guys who drop a wad of cash for a fancy looking new car to show off..

this is generally true. i almost always am able to have an interesting conversation about bmw's with any random stranger who is driving an clean e30, e28, 2002, etc. i just sold a set of tires on CL, and the buyer ended up being a diehard e28 fanatic who just bought an e28 m5. he was really cool, and will probably show up at a local meet now that i've informed him of local forums. those kinds of interactions will almost NEVER happen with the owner of a newer BMW, but anyways, what the hell were we all talking about again?

[rThor432]

I like 4-doors a lot. They may not look as good in pictures (to some people) but as far as practicality they are great. I would rather have my E36 4-door over a 2-door any day, but that is my preference. A lot of E36 M3 2-door owners that I talk to say that if they could go back they would have gone for a 4-door.

And the E36 M3 sedans have a more rigid chassis than the 2-door. Nothing wrong with that on the track.. Guess it just comes down to what you want.

[Bill 84 318i]

Even though it was clear as day that this is where the thread was going, it's still interesting.

I'll agree that new BMW's are quite different from what e30's are.

I agree more with what Kellie is saying in terms of BMW keeping up with the times. If BMW made a car like an e30 these days, it would sell very well on r3vlimited...if people here could afford it. Unfortunately (really), the couple thousand people passionate enough about e30's to join a forum about them aren't going to fill BMW's pockets. I preached the "why own anything other than an e30" for awhile, but in terms of cars that keep me happy...e30's just don't fit the bill. I love the character they have, appreciate their quirks, and enjoy the fact that they have 'personality'...but I won't ever again drive one daily.

There are some fantastic new cars out there that are driver oriented. Elise's, S2000's, etc. It's a short list for one simple reason: they don't sell. As much as I love them, there isn't a demand for them. I've been lucky enough to own a few nice 'new' cars, as well as a sweet e30. There is no comparison.

I don't feel like I've backed up my main point, which is, well...deal with it.

e30's to new cars = apples to kumquats

[Eric Giles]

Very, very well said Bill-I completely agree. I have owned numerous BMW's over the past seven years-E30's, E36, E46's, and now an E53. I love E30's-I really do. However, newer BMW's have a lot going for them-they still have more of a sporting character than other cars out there, yet they are very comfortable, refined, powerful, etc. They get all of the modem amenities, yet they still do have that BMW feel. It may not be as readily apparent at first, but it is there.

I daily drove my current E30 M3 for 8 months until earlier this year, and I HAD to get something else as the E30 M3 character just wasn't bearable to me anymore as a daily. I was actually starting to hate the car after a while. It's not the car's fault-it wasn't meant or designed for that type of duty in the first place. Now I am a person that has always despised any type of SUV, but all of a sudden an X5 sounded attractive to me. I am now driving an '02 X5 4.4i and I dare say I enjoy it as much-and maybe more-as any other BMW I have owned. It is DAMN good-and actually handles very, very well!

A good friend of mine owns a '04 545i with 6 speed manual and all the options. It has that damn i-Drive, adaptive headlights, active roll stabilization, active steering, etc.-all the stuff that we as enthusiasts decry. But you know what? Besides the i-Drive, those features just plain work. The car is very quick, super comfortable, and is the flattest handling car I think I have ever driven-which is impressive considering the weight.

The fact is, time moves on and things change. I very much respect the past-and I am still glad that although they may not be the same BMW's as they used to be, the fact is-the new one's are still better than the competition. And they are still BMW's.

[Jean]

not a good looking car imho, 2 door looks better....why does every new car have to look like a camry lol

BMW seems to take chances more with styling compared to MB and Audi that's for sure .

[rThor432]

Nah the Camry looks like every other new car.

[Firestorm]

I love it when e30 owners say that they would rather have their car than a brand new 420hp v8 m3.

420hp?


Weak.

[SchnellerVert]

420 hp is more than adequate for the US and our horrible roads and slower speed limits.

For that matter the new Audi RS4 is 420 hp also with a 6 speed. It's a tank and it has a quite a few aluminium panels just to keep weight down.

We have so many gizzmo's and thingimajigs on cars that they have become an extension of our living rooms. Honestly do we really need AS? Cubed? their is an anti this anti that in our cars to keep folks who have no clue what to do when their 300+ hp car goes into a spin, most just shut down and go for the ride.

I am not the greatest driver nor will I even claim that I am half way decent but I for one now that if I mash the accelerator down for any length of time and do something stupid at triple digits I should be the one to blame not the manufacter like in the case of Porsche's Carrera GT incident 2 years ago.

The ESQ at the end of people's names is why cars are a certain way to a degree.