Kirk rollbar?

**equate975** · 09-27-2007, 09:34 AM

I have a VSR, but I would like to add this:

Have FUCKING fun putting it in.

Biggest PITA I have ever encountered (except maybe a stuck on s14 oil filter)

**Emre** · 09-27-2007, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by brodee

Can anyone that has a 4-point Kirk bolt-in bar post up some pics of the rear mounting points? I'm putting mine in and trying to see exactly where they need to go.

You're better off welding some plates to the floor and mounting the bar to that. It'll be more secure (keeps the bar from punching through the floor in a rollover), especially if you box-in the mounting plates to the crossmember and side sills. Also, it'll allow you to mount the top bar tighter to the headliner.

Emre

**brodee** · 09-27-2007, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Emre

You're better off welding some plates to the floor and mounting the bar to that. It'll be more secure (keeps the bar from punching through the floor in a rollover), especially if you box-in the mounting plates to the crossmember and side sills. Also, it'll allow you to mount the top bar tighter to the headliner.

Emre

Thanks but the bar comes with plates that go under the car and sandwich the floor. And I don't think it's possible to get the bar closer to the headliner.

Bump for some pics please.

**blunttech** · 09-28-2007, 04:28 PM

are you having issues with the rear bars and mounting them on the wheel wells? i had a kirk bar in my e30 and i have another in 1 of my 02's..and you need to beat them into a half moon shape looking thing like fucking lucky charms. basically they fit like shit till you persuade them. get the hoop where you want it and then slide the rear bars in and see where you need to tweak the plates. you have to do the opposite to the backing plates so they fit the curvature of the wheel well. i cant supply pics because i took it out of the e30 and went with a full weld in cage a while ago

**brodee** · 09-28-2007, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by blunt

are you having issues with the rear bars and mounting them on the wheel wells? i had a kirk bar in my e30 and i have another in 1 of my 02's..and you need to beat them into a half moon shape looking thing like fucking lucky charms. basically they fit like shit till you persuade them. get the hoop where you want it and then slide the rear bars in and see where you need to tweak the plates. you have to do the opposite to the backing plates so they fit the curvature of the wheel well. i cant supply pics because i took it out of the e30 and went with a full weld in cage a while ago

Actually that's a huge help, thanks. I was thinking I'd have to bend those plates but wanted to make sure before I did it. I'm probably going to finish it up tomorrow so I'll see how it goes.

**Erick** · 09-28-2007, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by blunt

are you having issues with the rear bars and mounting them on the wheel wells? i had a kirk bar in my e30 and i have another in 1 of my 02's..and you need to beat them into a half moon shape looking thing like fucking lucky charms. basically they fit like shit till you persuade them. get the hoop where you want it and then slide the rear bars in and see where you need to tweak the plates. you have to do the opposite to the backing plates so they fit the curvature of the wheel well. i cant supply pics because i took it out of the e30 and went with a full weld in cage a while ago

I was set on getting AutoPower until many persuaded me to go with Kirk Racing... you're the first dissenting opinion. Do you have any opinions on AP cages?

**blunttech** · 09-29-2007, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by rwdrift

I was set on getting AutoPower until many persuaded me to go with Kirk Racing... you're the first dissenting opinion. Do you have any opinions on AP cages?

maybe i came off negative but i didnt mean to.... but i believe all bolt ins are like this. ive never seen a VR1 bolt in so i cant say on those. ive had 2 kirks and once you pound on them they fit fine. when i put the one in my 02 it wouldnt fit as i have a sunroof so i had to cut out an inch and reweld the bottom plates. i bought it used so i wasnt aware it was for a non sunroof car. i called kirk to ask them what the difference in height was between the bars and he doesnt make 2 separate bars for sunroof/non sunroof cars. strange but anyway, i modified mine and then called him back at his request to give him the dimensions so he could offer both types for 02's. i think they are all a decent product with a little tweaking

**Dave** · 09-29-2007, 10:20 AM

I had the same experience as Blunt with my Kirk. The plates for the down tubes had to be tweaked a bit to fit well.

And the main hoop fit very tightly against the headliner - no problems there.

Dont take my comments as negative. I think its a decent product.

I am getting a full cage welded into the new race car, so the Kirk bar was sold.

**Emre** · 09-29-2007, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by brodee

Thanks but the bar comes with plates that go under the car and sandwich the floor.

That won't do you much good. The floor is still just thin sheet-metal...even if it's sandwiched between two plates. You don't seriously expect the sheet-metal that makes up the floor and rear wheel arches to support the weight of the car, do you?

Unless you tie the main hoop to the lateral frame-rails, you'll run the risk of having the main hoop punch through the floor. And as long as you're welding the main hoop to the frame-rails, might as well box it in to the crossmember (base of the rear seats) to give you some real security..and add quite a bit of stiffness.

Emre

**AndrewBird** · 09-29-2007, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Emre

That won't do you much good. The floor is still just thin sheet-metal...even if it's sandwiched between two plates. You don't seriously expect the sheet-metal that makes up the floor and rear wheel arches to support the weight of the car, do you?

Unless you tie the main hoop to the lateral frame-rails, you'll run the risk of having the main hoop punch through the floor. And as long as you're welding the main hoop to the frame-rails, might as well box it in to the crossmember (base of the rear seats) to give you some real security..and add quite a bit of stiffness.

Emre

The thing you're not accounting for is that one mount doesn't have to hold the entire car, all the mounts together do. For one mount to punch through, others would have to fail too.

Welding it would make it a lot stronger, but it doesn't necessarily need to be.

And even still, it is better then not having a bar, so...

Edit: Did the math. Four 4"x6" mounting plates (estimating size) makes up 96 square inches. If the car weighed 3000lbs (way more then actual), there would only be ~31lbs per square inch load put on the plates. Even sheet metal should be able to withstand that.

I think more the problem would be the metal bending in a bad crash rather then tearing out, but even still, 31lbs is not a lot.

**Erick** · 09-29-2007, 02:43 PM

Thanks blunt/Dave. I will still look into Kirks. I want a bolt-on because in my sport, the chances of me going through a different chassis are higher than conventional track days. :)

**Emre** · 09-29-2007, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by NitroRustlerDriver

The thing you're not accounting for is that one mount doesn't have to hold the entire car, all the mounts together do. For one mount to punch through, others would have to fail too.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to say, "I'm already investing 'X' amount of time and money into fitting roll protection, might as well pay a fabricator the extra 50 bucks to box in the bases properly."

Originally posted by NitroRustlerDriver

Welding it would make it a lot stronger, but it doesn't necessarily need to be.

Well, if we're prepared to cut corners, then why even bother with roll protection in the first place? You'll probably never need it, right?

Originally posted by NitroRustlerDriver

Edit: Did the math. Four 4"x6" mounting plates (estimating size) makes up 96 square inches. If the car weighed 3000lbs (way more then actual), there would only be ~31lbs per square inch load put on the plates. Even sheet metal should be able to withstand that.

That might be true...if, for example, you were to pick up the car with a crane, turn it over, and gently place it on its roof. The dynamics of a car going into a barrel roll at the top of 4th gear are a little different. A rollbar is supposed to withstand shock...not just steady, even pressure.

Emre

**blunttech** · 09-30-2007, 06:07 AM

Originally posted by Emre

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to say, "I'm already investing 'X' amount of time and money into fitting roll protection, might as well pay a fabricator the extra 50 bucks to box in the bases properly."

Well, if we're prepared to cut corners, then why even bother with roll protection in the first place? You'll probably never need it, right?

That might be true...if, for example, you were to pick up the car with a crane, turn it over, and gently place it on its roof. The dynamics of a car going into a barrel roll at the top of 4th gear are a little different. A rollbar is supposed to withstand shock...not just steady, even pressure.

Emre

dude nobody is arguing a properly built weld in cage is a better option for safety. for me, a bolt in cage is more of an accessory than a real safety feature. sure id like to think it would help somewhat but i have one in my 02 mainly because it looks cool. i dont track it. i just beat around town in it .
i think everyone on here realizes a bolt in is a compromise

Kirk rollbar?

Kirk rollbar?

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