Once and for f*cking all....

[TwoJ's]

you're fucking stupid

Its the planes speed relative to the air. Not the ground. and no, the air doesnt move the same speed as the ground
theres such a thing as wind you know.

I seriously hope for your sake that you're joking. Normal winds on earth will not lift a plane. And the "wind" created by the engines PUSH THE PLANE FORWARD, THEY DO NOT PROVIDE THE LIFT. What makes lift is when the plane moves forward RELATIVE TO THE GROUND (which happens to be the same as the speed relative to the stagnant air). Air traveling over and under the wings makes it lift, and if the plane is not moving relative to teh ground (or air: same thing) then there is no air moving around the wings.

You win the award for biggest dumb shit in the world. Go take a physics class.

[TwoJ's]

x is a variable, meaning it could be anything, including zero.

edit, im not saying that the thrusters suddenly come on increasing the speed, I'm saying the pilot hammers the gas increasing the speed.

Just stop trying dumbass, you are digging yourself deeper. Again, going back to your original statement, the plane is moving at speed x and the belt is moving in the opposite direction with same speed x. So if x was zero, then nothing is moving and you're still the most worthless mind on the board.

[sleepswithe30s]

I seriously hope for your sake that you're joking. Normal winds on earth will not lift a plane. And the "wind" created by the engines PUSH THE PLANE FORWARD, THEY DO NOT PROVIDE THE LIFT. What makes lift is when the plane moves forward RELATIVE TO THE GROUND (which happens to be the same as the speed relative to the stagnant air). Air traveling over and under the wings makes it lift, and if the plane is not moving relative to teh ground (or air: same thing) then there is no air moving around the wings.

You win the award for biggest dumb shit in the world. Go take a physics class.

ground has nothing to do with it, they test wing designs for lift in a fucking wind tunnel for christs sake, thats right, they ain't moving relative to the ground, but there still making lift, why? cause they're moving relative to the air.


Here try this, hold a strip of paper up to you're bottom lip, and blow over the top of it. It isnt moving relative to the ground, but it still makes lift. Yes, this is a simplistic example, but it work os the same principle that bernouli made ages ago. lift depends on entirely on air speed, nothing more.

[mspiegle]

Im fairly sure they have reverse thrusters (not 100% sure, just guessing by the noise the engines make when they land.

Negative. If you look at the way a turbine is designed, it can only go in one way, and out the other. Think of how a turbo on a car works - it's a similar idea. This might help too:

http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine3.htm

The engines function VERY differently on the ground as compared to in the air. There's quite a bit of math in relation to how high a plane needs to fly in order to strike a balance between wind resistance and intake-air for the thrusters. This is probably the change in sound you're referring to.

[boom-monkey]

Of coarse it will fly.

I will fo' sho' put money on it. $20 sound good?

How anyone could think otherwise boggles the mind.

[sleepswithe30s]

Negative. If you look at the way a turbine is designed, it can only go in one way, and out the other. Think of how a turbo on a car works - it's a similar idea. This might help too:

http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine3.htm

The engines function VERY differently on the ground as compared to in the air. There's quite a bit of math in relation to how high a plane needs to fly in order to strike a balance between wind resistance and intake-air for the thrusters. This is probably the change in sound you're referring to.

meh, it was just a shot in the dark, learn something every day

[TwoJ's]

ground has nothing to do with it, they test wing designs for lift in a fucking wind tunnel for christs sake, thats right, they ain't moving relative to the ground, but there still making lift, why? cause they're moving relative to the air.


Here try this, hold a strip of paper up to you're bottom lip, and blow over the top of it. It isnt moving relative to the ground, but it still makes lift. Yes, this is a simplistic example, but it work os the same principle that bernouli made ages ago. lift depends on entirely on air speed, nothing more.

No fucking shit. But this experiment is not going to be happening in a wind tunnel, or with a big fucking fan blowing air. What makes you think that there will be air moving over the wings when it's not moving relative to the ground? Once again, the engines push the plane forward, and the wings provide lift. The engines don't push air over or under the wings.

You seriously fail at trying to sound smart.

[sleepswithe30s]

No fucking shit. But this experiment is not going to be happening in a wind tunnel, or with a big fucking fan blowing air. What makes you think that there will be air moving over the wings when it's not moving relative to the ground? Once again, the engines push the plane forward, and the wings provide lift. The engines don't push air over or under the wings.

You seriously fail at trying to sound smart.

oh ouch, but seriously, what is holding it back other than having the bearngs spinning really fast?
lets say the plane is moving at set speed. there is friction between the bearings and tires holding the plane back. Now if we make the conveyor dynamic, this force holding the plane back increases, and the plane cannot move, that is you're argument, I understand where you are coming from. My argument, is that in the real world a plane just pushes so damn hard that you wont be able to spin a conveyor fast enough (atleast with our technology) to be able to keep the plan in the same spot. thats all there is to it. Your theory is speculative, where as mine is realistic.

I really hope that you get this cause I don't wanna waste much more time on this.


edit: just to add something, I used the wind tunnel to show you that it is air speed not ground speed that lifts a plane, nothing more.

[TwoJ's]

It's quite obvious that airspeed lifts a plane, but if the ground speed is zero, then so is teh airspeed. And who said we were being realistic here? This entire experiment is just dumb.


I seriously quit with this thread. Let me know when it's on Myth Busters. I'll bet that they can't get it off the ground, yet they call it "plausible".

[sleepswithe30s]

It's quite obvious that airspeed lifts a plane, but if the ground speed is zero, then so is teh airspeed. And who said we were being realistic here? This entire experiment is just dumb.


I seriously quit with this thread. Let me know when it's on Myth Busters. I'll bet that they can't get it off the ground, yet they call it "plausible".

Mythbusters does alot of things wrong, lke busting the smaking two hammers together myth, now idiot kids are smashing hammers in my shop class all the time using that as an excuse. I have seen myself, I person get a peice of hammer lodged in them. I think this expermint depends entirely on the setup. and FWIW, I bet a hurricane would give the plane some lift :p.

[einstein57]

Are you kidding me? Is this shit really so hard to understand? When planes take off, they are moving at a certain speed RELATIVE to the surface of the earth.

Before responding to this thread, people should have at least a slight idea of how the world works. Or maybe at least understand the concept of relativity.

Once and for all, this question depends on only one thing: the speed of the plane relative to the earth.

that's exactly what i just said but i left out hundred of other details :neutral: I justed dumbed it down for you but you still don't get it. Incase you forgot the earth rotates on 2 axis. I am an aerospace engineering major and know what i'm talking about. When thinking on a large scale there are hundred of things that will alter the amount of thrust required to to maintain or increase the speed of an object. Albeit a minimal % when applied to say a comercial airline but very substantial when applying the same concepts to say a paraglider or other small aircraft. And it's not how fast it is moving in relation to the surface of the earth. It's more about the atmoshpere taking into consideration wind speed and direction and air density. You can make an airplane go 500 mph along the surface of the moon but its not going to generate thrust. Oh and the jet stream occurs on earth as well. Not just on tv.

[fwappy]

Relative to the Earth my ass. Whoever said that originally needs to think about what they are saying. It all has to do with moving air over the wings. Have you ever flown a kite? the kite is going nowhere, but it's flying isn't it? If they could produce a big enough and powerful enough wind tunnel, the airplane could in theory leave the ground, WITHOUT moving forward relative to the earth.

[Raxe]

Not such a simple conclusion after all, huh? :)

I'm going to say it will take off, and that the belt will have little effect after the first few seconds.The wheels will just spin faster than if the ground was stationary.

[xLibelle]

who cares, just watch them land in crosswinds


COOL!

[einstein57]

Im fairly sure they have reverse thrusters (not 100% sure, just guessing by the noise the engines make when they land.

The sound your porbably refering to is the sound of the turbulant air generated by the flaps on the wings. If you ever sit near the window you'll see them go up and if its particularly humid you can see the air being pushed around it. Kind like when you stick your arm out of the window.

I wonder if i threw a paper airplane while in an airplane would it stay up do to its relative speed compared to the surface of the earth. i means its got to be traveling close to 500 knots right


i say fwappy should intern with me at northup