VIN #336 Craigslist Find. S38 Swapped Euro E30

[jeffnhiscars]

Not sure how I miss d this thread but I'm enjoying it.

[scabzzzz]

Fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

This thread makes me want to throw my computer

[Ramgoat]

...There are always people from different places here which can be frustrating at times

#murica

[Eric]

That looks for standard work for preheating any aluminum project, not specific to a cylinder head. The valve seats would most definitely need to be resurfaced after the repair.

Do you have eric schaube's number? He had some paul B work done and unfortunetly you could probably re-make an entire e34 M5 in the time it takes paul to do something. I hear his health isn't very good, causing long wait times.

Roland has had work done at a shop up in Denver that he says does excellent work. I'll text you their infos.


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[downforce22]

Didn't paul Burke say he can fix the head? From an outsiders perspective that is the best choice.

Trying to make a b38 head fit in a b36 is about as logical as me wanting to stuff an s62 in the M3 because the S50 spun some rod bearings...


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I'm not confident in many shops around to repair aluminum heads. I have heard both things; they are fixable and that they shouldn't be repaired or reused.

Here is an excerpt for this head repair article taken from here http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2005...crack-repairs/

TIG Welding Aluminum
Cracks in aluminum heads are most often repaired by TIG welding (though pinning also works with small accessible cracks). The first step in welding aluminum is preparing the crack. The head must be clean, grease-free and dry before grinding out the crack. The crack must be ground all the way out. Just grinding the surface and welding over a crack will likely be a short-lived temporary fix because the underlying crack is still there and will continue to grow. After grinding, the surface of the metal should be cleaned with a stainless steel wire brush.

When exposed to air, aluminum forms an oxide coating that contaminates the weld and interferes with fusing. A TIG welder prevents the formation of the oxide layer by bathing the weld with a steady supply of inert gas (usually argon). An alternating current is used to alternately heat the metal and burn off any oxide that forms.

Because aluminum can crack when subjected to too much heat in a concentrated area, the head must be preheated in an oven to 450° to 550° F to eliminate thermal stress. The added heat also makes the head easier to weld because aluminum conducts heat away from the weld area rapidly. Keeping the head hot is one of the tricks to successfully welding aluminum, which requires working in an area free from drafts and occasionally reapplying heat to the head.

Welding techniques vary, but the basic idea is to melt the surrounding metal and fill the crack with molten metal and filler rod. An experienced welder can even "recast" a badly damaged area, saving a head that would otherwise be junk. The strongest welds are achieved by using a filler rod that’s the same alloy as the head, or very close to it. Two filler rods that work well are #4043 and #5356 with 5 percent magnesium. The type of electrode that’s used on the welder can also make a difference. Tungsten thorium electrodes work well with aluminum but zirconium tungsten electrodes (which are much more expensive) are considered the best.

After welding, the head must be allowed to cool slowly. This is done by placing the head back in the oven or wrapping it in an insulating blanket. A long slow cool down relieves stress in the metal, which if not relieved could lead to cracking.

The last shop I talked to (in denver) couldn't repair aluminum heads with valves below 38mm in diameter and the b36 has 37 mm intake valves. I'm not sure I trust any local shop to do the procedure above. Now it turns out VAC does remanufacture heads for $999.95. Their core charge is $1700. From the one picture I sent the sales rep who talked to the machinist who has to remove the valve seats to repair the weld, the one tiny crack would take 3-5 hours at $125 an hour.

That puts a remanufactured head at ~$1,600 from VAC not including shipping and if it needs to be milled or something else. (another crack??) Then again you know the head has been repaired but you don't know whether all of the stresses have been removed or if it will happen again.

I'm thinking a BMW head may be worth the extra cash for the peace of mind you get in exchange. I'm still open to other ideas though. Oh yeah and I called and left a message for a number that was supposedly Paul B's but I have yet to hear back. I'll try again.

[Eric]

Didn't paul Burke say he can fix the head? From an outsiders perspective that is the best choice.

Trying to make a b38 head fit in a b36 is about as logical as me wanting to stuff an s62 in the M3 because the S50 spun some rod bearings...


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[downforce22]

I have not titled it. I will look for the green papers. Thanks for the help. THe only thing I have found is that I didn't register within 45 days here and that may be a problem.



Anyone know this, does the s38b38 head differ and/or bolt on to the s38b36 block?

I found two documents with information on the two engines. Basically, I am thinking, if I have to buy a head from BMW, maybe I could run the b38 head with larger diameter intake ports, intake valves, and exhaust valves. I couldn't run b38 cams without changing the bottom end, but it should give me airflow for my altitude deprived engine.

Any thoughts? it would be +1.5 mm intake valve diameter and +0.5 mm exhaust valve diameter.

Is it possible?

http://www.asean-aerospace.com/BMW%20E34%20M5/Tech%20Documents/S38B36%20Tech%20Doc.pdf

http://www.asean-aerospace.com/BMW%20E34%20M5/Tech%20Documents/S38B38_TechnicalInfo.pdf

[RCtheRed]

Have you managed to recieve a title and register it yet? If not, I have some information that might help.

With all the paperwork you recieved you should have a full page green paper and a short foldable green paper. The long one is the Germans certificate of owernership for the car and the small one is TÜV and registration log for the car. If you have both these certificates you should have them translated and that will show ownership of the car for title purposes.

Also you should have some paperwork that shows the car was imported legally.

With these documents you should be able to recieve a new title and then register it. I'm not sure of the laws dictating vehicles in your area but those few documents should cover your needs.

[downforce22]

It looks like cracks in the s38 head are not all that uncommon.

I found this thread with detailed pictures showing how to repair the s38 head. It is very intensive with respect to welding and machining. I am leaning toward using the s38b35 head that I found and potentially porting it to match a b36 head +2 mm.

Full thread here, I may upload and backup the pictures so they do not get removed.

http://www.e34m5.de/board/showthread.php?10243-Bericht-Motoruberhohlung-E28S-M5/page2

[downforce22]

In my search for cylinder heads I found one b36 head however it also had one small crack in one of the cylinders. I am not sure whether it can be repaired to work, I have heard both sides that it can be fixed and that it shouldn't be used. Here is that head.



The other head I found is a b35 head that could be used as it is a bare head that had a valve seat repaired. In my research the head should work but I do not know for sure that you can put a b35 head on a b36 block. I found most of the valvetrain is the exact same in the b35 and the b36 according to realoem, the main difference being the cams.



I found this on mye28 stating

The heads are very similar. The intermediate housing (cam housing) is the same for all S38s. The lower part of the head with the chambers is different for each. I believe that the ports are different sizes in each head (largest is B38, smallest is B35) and I know there are other small differences, like a sensor fitting in the front of the B36 and B38 heads, etc. but the basic design is the same for all (since they have to bolt to essentially the same block on the bottom and intermediate housing on top.)

From a local S38 guru

I haven't had any luck finding a good used S38 B36 cylinder head. The B36 and B38 heads are superior to the B35 in a number of ways, so a B36/38 would be your best choice. Cracks can be welded by a competent machinist and the head can be subsequently pressure tested for integrity. If I find a good serviceable head, I'll let you know right away.

So my questions to anybody out there who may be able to shed some light on the subject.

Questions

• Are the ports different?
  
• Are the combustion chambers different?
  
• Would there be a drawback to using the b35 head? A benefit?

Then I found this sheet from metric mechanic which basically claims the b35 and b36 are only different in stroke, intake port diameter, Cam duration, and exhaust tube diameter. This ignores the differences in AFM/ MAF and the intake/plenum/ throttle body, strictly speaking of the engine components.

http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdf/M5-M6-Engine-Chart.pdf

Still not sure whether to try to repair the b36 head or try out the bare b35 head I found.

As far as the rest of the car goes, I found a replacement Brake bomb for the hydroboost system and found a few center caps online to replace the incorrect ones that are currently on the car.





The last thing I did was speak to a local who imported an e30 touring from France and he helped describe the Surrey Bond process he had to go through to get his car Titled and Registered here in the US. I am not too excited about the bond process and may try to speak with the local DMV first before going down that path. My thoughts are that a military town like the one I am in may be used to titling and registering cars that have been brought back and it may be an easier process than areas such as Denver where there is not as much military influence. Either way, I really want to get the car back on the road!

[rzerob]

Subscribed.

[downforce22]

I have an update for you guys.



A few weird things.

There were some spacers underneath the valve springs. They look to be washers machined to fit over the valve stems. Anyone heard of this before, possibly to increase valve springs tension?



There doesn't seem to be any markings on the head/ block. I will keep searching as it may be on the ECU.





As for the mechanics of the engine. The cylinder head was looked at and it turns out there are a few hairline cracks in the head. I am not sure how this happens besides maybe avoiding basic maintenance? Here is cylinder number four and apparently there are a few more of these elsewhere on the head, this one being the worst with the bad valve.

From the mechanic

Head is not in very good shape. This is cylinder 4, there are 3 cracks in the combustion chamber. 4 other chambers have cracks but this is the worst. The crack on the left is raised and warped the seats, that's why the valve burnt.

I have a friend who knows somebody out of state who can repair heads and says this is salvageable. I am not sure I want to risk that on a rebuild. Also not sure I want to shell out the cash for a head from BMW. So I am stuck looking for a b36 head. If anybody has any leads that would be great. I am not sure I want to risk it on the b36 head on ebay. I also have a friend in denver who has one he was going to cut up but I am not sure of the condition and will try to get that checked out.

As for s38b35 heads, are they interchangeable? I know the ports are different but I am not sure if the cams will fit inside the b35 head. Keeping my head up as I deal with this disappointment :/

[ModernclassicxF]

Wow nice find, beautiful car.

[Alpina]

seriously. It seems that every S38 I see that gets pulled apart has completely destroyed its exhaust valves.

wonder if you can get fancy sodium-filled valves like the 745i M30..

B38 valves are filled.. but not sure with B36,

[kronus]

seriously. It seems that every S38 I see that gets pulled apart has completely destroyed its exhaust valves.

wonder if you can get fancy sodium-filled valves like the 745i M30..