E30 Street/TimeAttack (+ E36 V8 Turbo Touring)

[Miuge]

Finally had some time to realise side skirt mockup. I hope they don't look that block-like when finished with couple of details and corner radiuses Current wheels look sooo tiny, 650mm dia will look so much better without any tire strech.
Flat floor determined the skirt dimensions, floor will be about 20mm off the beams in front end with rubber mounts. Ride height I'm aiming is about 80mm.

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx]

Cool build, will be watching this! Though I must ask: why air/water intercooler? If this were a drag car I would understand, but I've never understood why anyone intending to put their car on a track would want to deal with the additional complexity, failure points, and heat soak of an air/water setup.

[Julien]

Cool build, will be watching this! Though I must ask: why air/water intercooler? If this were a drag car I would understand, but I've never understood why anyone intending to put their car on a track would want to deal with the additional complexity, failure points, and heat soak of an air/water setup.

He mentioned wanting to have better airflow to the radiator/oil cooler up front and transferring some weight to the back to offset the weight of the m30.




awesome build, love the creativity!

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx]

He mentioned wanting to have better airflow to the radiator/oil cooler up front and transferring some weight to the back to offset the weight of the m30.

Fair enough, though were it me, in that case I'd have mounted the radiator in the back of the car and left a nice air/air intercooler up front, it's quite a common thing to do really.

[ncrmtrsprtsE30]

nice arms i like those!

[Ether-D]

Fair enough, though were it me, in that case I'd have mounted the radiator in the back of the car and left a nice air/air intercooler up front, it's quite a common thing to do really.

Oh, then you should totally do that on your E30 Street/TimeAttack (M30 twincharged widebody project).

[Miuge]

Cool build, will be watching this! Though I must ask: why air/water intercooler? If this were a drag car I would understand, but I've never understood why anyone intending to put their car on a track would want to deal with the additional complexity, failure points, and heat soak of an air/water setup.

Thank you!
Well I don't find it any more complex than moving the engine radiator to the trunk, it would also need the piping, pump etc..
Julien already mentioned few things why, water-to-air intercooler has a lot smaller cell size than equivalent air-to-air cooler and I didn't want anything that massive in front of the car. I also find it easier to build charge piping that way with fraction of the lenght (displacement) the air-to-air setup would have come with. Well designed setup should not heat soak either.

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx]

Oh, then you should totally do that on your E30 Street/TimeAttack (M30 twincharged widebody project).

I didn't mean to be telling OP that he's doing it wrong or anything like that, sorry, he will naturally do whatever he sees fit, as he should.

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx]

Thank you!
Well I don't find it any more complex than moving the engine radiator to the trunk, it would also need the piping, pump etc..
Julien already mentioned few things why, water-to-air intercooler has a lot smaller cell size than equivalent air-to-air cooler and I didn't want anything that massive in front of the car. I also find it easier to build charge piping that way with fraction of the lenght (displacement) the air-to-air setup would have come with. Well designed setup should not heat soak either.

Had you considered maybe doing a V-Mount or Z-Mount setup in the front before you decided on air/water?

Also, any progress? :D

[Blake B]

why the hate on the water to air? I find most that oppose it, have never used it and are just regurgitating what they've seen online from others who have zero experience with it.

The rx7 and mr2 communities have had alot of success using them (including in DD setups). I can't wait to see this in action

[Coyote_ar]

basically most people just say "water to air is for drag cars", because they asume that water will heat soak.

the reason for heat soak, is that the radiator is undersized.

there are 2 true drawbacks for water to air, and is not heat soak. its weight and complexity. if you are ok with those 2, then its superior to air-air.

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx]

why the hate on the water to air? I find most that oppose it, have never used it and are just regurgitating what they've seen online from others who have zero experience with it.

The rx7 and mr2 communities have had alot of success using them (including in DD setups). I can't wait to see this in action

It's not a "hate" thing at all. No, I don't have any personal experience with it, so I can only go by what I read. For drag racing air/water seems to be very good as you can put ice water in the tank and it will keep your intake air charge very cold until the water gets too warm. For daily driving it can be good, too, because the amount of time spent at WOT as a percentage of total driving is very small, so you're not going to be putting a lot of heat into the system. On a track car, however, you're heavily on the throttle almost the entire time, so there is a huge amount of heat going into your cooling water. The warmer that water gets, the less effective it is at cooling your intake charge, obviously.

On top of that, with the traditional air/air you've got a very simple set up of a few pipes and the heat exchanger: the only real points of failure are joins between the charge piping, which are easy to make "bullet proof." With the air/water, you have to have a water tank, an electric water pump, water lines, an air/water heat exchanger to cool the intake charge, and a water/air heat exchanger to cool your water. Far more parts, far more potential points of failure.

Now, this particular car is being built for street/time attack as per the thread title, and most time attacks involve very few laps at a time, so this might well be a decent application for air/water.

Try as I might, off the top of my head I can't think of any dedicated track car that I've ever seen online or in person that uses an air/water intercooler, they're always air/air.

Regardless, it's only my opinion and not my car, I'd rather not derail this thread any more.

Sorry OP!

[Miuge]

I think that's enough of the intercooling -topic :D We'll see how things work and I'll give you the results then.

Lately I've been playing with the bodywork, lot's of foam and fiberglass stuff ahead... Made one little foam piece between the door and engine bay/wheel well, nice round edge for a better air flow, not to forget about the looks:

[FreedomM3]

Looks great! Isn't it fun playing with glass foam and filler?! This thing is going to be killer!

[Miuge]

I like playing with foam, but what comes after that isn't my favorite :D I should probably try something more advanced release wax for the fiberglass parts and also find a proper paint which wouldn't melt because of the resin if it would ease the job...