And it begins...

[rwh11385]

I just want to establish a plug and play application and show E85 mpg can be nearly as good as gas, and more fun. The more research and steps needed, the slower it can spread. ;)

Back to the subject of the thread...

[nando]

If he's building a 8.5:1 CR 2.7i, I fail to see the huge benefit for that over a 2.5i, besides torque around town. B25's sing fine on track.

Any easy options for infinite flexibility, not just on/off? Hmmmm. :p

I don't know, there are a lot of variations of hardware/firmware. I know the B&G MS2 code supports flex fuel, but to what extent? Setting your WB to lambda is a good start, as it will read stoich no matter what fuel you throw at it. I'm not interested in it though, otherwise I'd find somebody who's already done it with a flex fuel sensor for you (I'm sure there's at least one).

[rwh11385]

I didn't mention it much, Nando did. I simply began by saying I didn't care to find ways to teach an old dog new tricks and wanted a newer dog.

Ted, why sit idly by while someone spends more time thinking about headers than compression on an engine they are sinking money and time into?

[James Crivellone]

Yes, because super ETA pistons with an I head results in 8.5:1 compression - exactly the same as a super eta, because the combustion chamber is the same (same head casting, same piston shape, same quench area). 8:1 would be what you'd get with eta pistons and an I head (different chamber/piston shapes, not a great idea). Secondly, if he does any milling to the head or the deck of the block, it's going to increase compression, not that 8.5:1 is significantly lower than a stock I motor. If he really wants power - it's a good envelope to be in for a decent turbo setup in the future. And of course it will be fresh.

The other good option is the 323 head you mentioned, but those are pretty damn hard to find without cracks, and the 885 head is still (slightly) superior. If he happened to have one lying around? sure, that'd be a good way to go. He wouldn't have to do anything, other than refresh the head and port match the intake. But it doesn't sound like that's what he's doing to me.

The alternative setup I was thinking of is the 84mm B28 crank, 130mm E rods, and stock i pistons - this results in good C/R (~9:1 or so) and gobs of torque (because of the low RR). I didn't mention it because josh's plan is just fine, it requires slightly more machine work and costs more.

There are lots of people using E85 with aftermarket ECUs - GM doesn't have a corner on this market at all. Other than flex fuel sensors (which you don't really need), all it really takes is a recalibration of the WBO2 sensor output for the different fuels. It's also easier to switch between them if you're using lambda output instead of AFR, since the WB controller takes care of the hard work (lambda is relative to the stoich ratio of your particular fuel). And finally if VE changes at all between different fuels, table switching is pretty easy - just flick a switch, and BAM! perfect tune. ;)

nando, please give heeter some slack, he would rather buy some POS E85 car then give 2 shits about how they are put together..

[Dave]

Do NOT Feed the Bear!

[DEV0 E30]

It's like reading an Encyclopedia Britannica, only problem is, this one only cares about flex fuel. So you feel like it's shoving not just the info, but the physical book down your throat even if it doesn't interest you. The information, is all fine and dandy, but you're going to get pretty tired of yogurt. Yogurt you ask? Well, your throat is damaged you see. Solid foods aren't what the used to be. You'll never really want to go to the Encyclopedia section in the library again, you'll stick to the periodicals because of that one bad book that forced itself to be read. You will burn it, along with the rest of civilization because of it's over dramatic voice.



zzzzzzzzzz

[rwh11385]

If he's building a 8.5:1 CR 2.7i, I fail to see the huge benefit for that over a 2.5i, besides torque around town. B25's sing fine on track.

Any easy options for infinite flexibility, not just on/off? Hmmmm. :p

[uofom3]

heeter why do you care about what the hell josh is doing? It's his money to waste if he so chooses.

[nando]

Yes, because super ETA pistons with an I head results in 8.5:1 compression - exactly the same as a super eta, because the combustion chamber is the same (same head casting, same piston shape, same quench area). 8:1 would be what you'd get with eta pistons and an I head (different chamber/piston shapes, not a great idea). Secondly, if he does any milling to the head or the deck of the block, it's going to increase compression, not that 8.5:1 is significantly lower than a stock I motor. If he really wants power - it's a good envelope to be in for a decent turbo setup in the future. And of course it will be fresh.

The other good option is the 323 head you mentioned, but those are pretty damn hard to find without cracks, and the 885 head is still (slightly) superior. If he happened to have one lying around? sure, that'd be a good way to go. He wouldn't have to do anything, other than refresh the head and port match the intake. But it doesn't sound like that's what he's doing to me.

The alternative setup I was thinking of is the 84mm B28 crank, 130mm E rods, and stock i pistons - this results in good C/R (~9:1 or so) and gobs of torque (because of the low RR). I didn't mention it because josh's plan is just fine, it requires slightly more machine work and costs more.

There are lots of people using E85 with aftermarket ECUs - GM doesn't have a corner on this market at all. Other than flex fuel sensors (which you don't really need), all it really takes is a recalibration of the WBO2 sensor output for the different fuels. It's also easier to switch between them if you're using lambda output instead of AFR, since the WB controller takes care of the hard work (lambda is relative to the stoich ratio of your particular fuel). And finally if VE changes at all between different fuels, table switching is pretty easy - just flick a switch, and BAM! perfect tune. ;)

[rwh11385]

way to sidestep the EMS question. But yeah, there are some other ways, actually. although what josh is doing is just fine. ;)

what other ways, for a BUDGET build, i.e. no custom pistons. let's hear them

and josh's plan of super eta pistons and i head with a 8:1 CR is just fine?

no, that was not an allusion to MS, it's an allusion to GM ECUs and what some can do - like run gas and E85

[nando]

If that's a shot at MS, you're just showing your ignorance there - there is nothing inside made by GM, although you can use inexpensive and common external sensors if you wish. And I alluded to there being other solutions - I'd love to trade up to VEMS, for example. But hey, what do I know? I only built my engine, ECU, and tune from scratch and have been daily driving it for over 25000 miles.

[rwh11385]

Who cares? I'm much more concerned with GM ECU units now-a-days. ;)

[nando]

way to sidestep the EMS question. But yeah, there are some other ways, actually. although what josh is doing is just fine. ;)

[rwh11385]

M50 swaps dating back to 11/92!

And 2.8"i" E30s date back to ~1984-5 (B6), 2.7"i" to 85/86 with C2.

and as the PDF mentioned, another easy approach is just slapping a 731 head on your block and running: http://www.e21bmw.net/graymarket/library/327i.php

http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e28-lounge/6151178-1.html

retains 9:1 CR. (might want to confirm but makes sense)

I dunno, Chris, is there some new fancy smancey approach to a budget stroker build?? Let's hear it!

1. Super eta pistons + decking to bump CR
2. Eta and dual valve springs/cams for a "stroker"
3. Eta + 323i head

Is there a mystery option that has come up in the last few years?

[nando]

Oh god it's the typo police?