And it begins...

[ditchdigger]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/cxalmt
Name: m290build.pdf
Size: 199KB
Description: M20_2.7build
The download link is located below.

OK this PDF is one of the most confusing things I have tried to read lately. It is a mishmash of M10, M20 and M30 info that is all unlabeled and to top it off there is some strange brake caliper stuff crammed into odd places. WTF?

As a person starting his own 2.7i build and shooting for around 9.5:1 compression I kept getting my hopes up thinking "Aha! X amount off the block and Y amount of the head and.....Shit! thats M30 stuff, Maybe this is....Damnit thats M10 with S14 crank stuff...." AARRGGHHH

I reread it a few times and i think that 30 to 40 thousandths off the block and twenty to thirty thousandths off the head will give 9.5 to 10:1 for a SETA short block with "i" head. Is that correct?

[madjurgen]

And aesthetics were about 30% of my decision to purchase an S38 over an S50.

So the purchase has been made? Sweet.

[nando]

you could always make a big plastic cover to hide the engine like the M50/S50 motors. ;)

[James Crivellone]

That wasn't my point (though if it were, cleanly swapped 24v motors look amazing - see my old car). My point is that your argument (aesthetics) is ridiculous criteria for choosing what motor direction to go in.

And aesthetics were about 30% of my decision to purchase an S38 over an S50.

S/M5X motors are boring and just overdone, seriously everybody is installing them, some of us don't only care about power and want something unique.

[ColdAccord]

yah header install isnt tough

[Jand3rson]

Not sure on exhaust... go without an upgraded one for now and leave room in your "budget" for misc. various costs that will be occurred and haven't necessarily be planned for. Once its running, and you're actually driving it with the new engine, you can worry about those details. A stroker will run just fine with a 325i exhaust manifold...

Worry about compression ratio more than what exhaust is going on it!

Good points, thanks for the tips. Might sound silly, but part of the reason I wanted to do the headers on the build was because it would probably be a lot easier to install them on the engine while on the stand, then drop it in. But I guess it's not too hard to install them after the fact.

[rwh11385]

http://www.sendspace.com/file/cxalmt

Name: m290build.pdf
Size: 199KB
Description: M20_2.7build
The download link is located below.

[rwh11385]

You say you are not certain what decision to make, get advice on the knife-edge, then ask for input about crank scraper.

"I haven't nailed down everything yet, but I will be using super eta pistons in combination with a 325i head and top end, including harness and ECU. I will be doing proper headers, no shortys, but I haven't decided which ones yet,"

So the knife edge would be a waste, eh? Good to know, I don't want to spend money where it isn't needed. Should I still do the crank scraper?

If you don't want input, don't make threads... make a blog and don't allow people to comment on it...

It's weird that you seem to feel that you're positive on some decisions, when even in this thread you benefited from people disagreeing with your ideas. But classic Josh there... "I'm so sure about this decisions I've made right now, DON"T QUESTION IT", but then you could really benefit from people questioning it. The best thinkers are ones that not only are open to criticism but also question their thinking themselves.

Not sure on exhaust... go without an upgraded one for now and leave room in your "budget" for misc. various costs that will be occurred and haven't necessarily be planned for. Once its running, and you're actually driving it with the new engine, you can worry about those details. A stroker will run just fine with a 325i exhaust manifold...

Worry about compression ratio more than what exhaust is going on it!

[Jand3rson]

Good ole pissy pants Josh. You start a thread asking for advice and get upset when someone tells you all your have planned isn't the wisest.

Couldn't find anywhere yet where I'd actually asked for advice on what to do with it, especially in the first post, just in regards to a couple of specific things. And I'm not getting pissy about anything, not getting upset, just a little annoyed that people are making such a big deal out of me considering liking the appearance of the M20 a benefit of sticking with it. I also like that it goes with the E30 as a whole, it's what it came with. I'm pretty damn far from the first person getting bunched up in this thread.

[rwh11385]

Originally Posted by So Live View Post
Its not that your doing it wrong. I think hes just saying with the build your planning, your going to spend a lot of money and not get much hp gain.

I'm going to get the engine I want, with the mods I want. I can change more things later, but initially, I'll have a fresh, really quick M20. I think I'll get pretty good power out of it. I'm really not going to have to spend all that much on parts.

Good ole pissy pants Josh. You start a thread asking for advice and get upset when someone tells you all your have planned isn't the wisest. Decide whether you think you know everything and you want to force everyone to agree with you, or be open to criticism. You're old enough to deal with someone disapproving of your choices like a grown-up.

[rwh11385]

I will be doing proper headers, no shortys, but I haven't decided which ones yet, I'm leaning toward the Bav Auto headers.

What?! Why? You have $600 lying around you just want to blow or something. Try throwing it into a mutual fund, minus the cost of a used 325i manifold and full exhaust.

It will get a decent cam, knife edged crank, crank scraper, your usual headwork, port-matched head inlets, all that good stuff.

stock 325i is decent... leave the crank alone. just throw 325i goodies in and leave the head be, put it on and get driving,

why are you worrying about your mod list?

And you're worrying about port-matched head inlets and headers without worrying about exact clearances or compression ratios. If you want a best budget performance stroker, look into what exact combination of parts and milling works, then a cam might make sense.

>>What kind of power do you think I am looking at with the following: 2.7
"i" I head, super eta bottom end, blueprinted and balanced, lightened
flywheel, hartge headers, dinan chip and Top end 274 cam. This is what I am
building now.<<<
My dyno program says about 180 hp with 170 ft-lbs. The weak point in your
build up, as I see it, is lack of compression. 8.5 CR with a cam that will
bleed the dynamic ratio down a little more just won't make the power I think
you are looking for. For example, decking the block 0.030" to 0.040" and
shaving the head 0.020" to 0.030" will yield 9.5 to 10.0 static compression.
My dyno program says 193 hp with 180 ft-lbs at 9.5:1 and 197 hp with 185
ft-lbs at 10.0:1. Very cheap power considering you're talking about less
than $100 worth of machine work. These higher estimates may also be a
little conservative because the dyno program has no way of taking into
consideration that your squish clearance would then be within that 0.030" to
0.040" sweet spot that makes a motor really come to life. As Smokey Yunick
use to say, if your squish clearance ain't below 0.040", you're leaving
horsepower on the table.

- Randall Prince, in his nice pdf about 2.7i stroker builds Ely linked to in about '03.

My $0.02 is that you didn't handle a stock "i" engine, so make a conservative, smart decision when building this and focus more on driving it than building it to be uber sweet.

I wish I had listen more to UNCLE's advice when starting my car rebuild, all many many things i got into started with just the subframe bushings. SS brake lines made a LOT of sense and so did TAs, guibo, CSB... but a performance diff was a stupid purchase and unneeded upgrade at the time. Brake lines, bushings, mounts, driveline wear items were all wise, but unworn performance changes = money that should have been spent on DE entry fees, or the numerous sets of tires I went through, or oil, or brake pads, or gas... etc. etc.

Wear items being replaced might not sound as cool when making your mod list vs. long tube headers, but remember what actually matters when you are trying your car with a purpose, not just showing off to the kids on a forum.

[george graves]

I've got aesthetic plans for this engine build that I'm pretty excited about.

Me? I love a clean, period correct motors. Subscribed.

But what ever you do, please don't slap steering wheel roundel on the intake mani and think it looks good - cause it won't!

[el bob]

M20 M20 M20 M20!!!!!

[TwoJ's]

An argument is not the same thing as a disagreement, it's just your presentation of an idea or opinion.

ANYWAYS, this should be fun. What kind of aesthetic things do you plan on doing?

[Jand3rson]

My point is that your argument (aesthetics) is ridiculous criteria for choosing what motor direction to go in.

Yeah, because that was my number one reason. :roll: And it wasn't an argument. Never once did I say, "this is on the list of reasons for choosing an M20". It's nothing more than one of the things that I liked about sticking with an M20 build. So are we done with this now?

No updates right now, I figure I'm not going to rip into the block until I have the set of pistons to swap in, that's pretty much the only thing that needs to be done to the bottom end internals.