Another marital problem thread....

[jrhaile]

Haha, that sounds a lot like faith to me.

Maybe I am being a bit arrogant but I do think that I have been lucky enough to have learned Philosophy as a skill which has allowed me to rationally question anything and everything. Most people live their lives without ever learning these skills and ever forming a belief of their own.

I firmly believe that it is everyone's duty to search for the truth rather than to believe something without question. It is never justified for anyone, anywhere, at anytime to believe anything without sufficient reason or evidence. Christians do it by definition.

there is no truth, that's the issue.

I sure as shit can't say with 100% and be truthful that anything in the bible is true. And you can't say, nor can anyone say that evolution is infact TRUTH because they have NOT found any proof - thus the reason it's still taught as a theory.

[jrhaile]

My wife goes to church every sunday.....she takes the kids with her......I stay home and work in the garage or clean the house or do yard work or whatever whilst I smoke cigarettes, and drink beer.....we have come to the understanding that I'm a non-believer..I only believe in whats here..around me and is indeed tangible.........she believes in god, prays every nite yadda yadda yadda.......I have always felt she is free to do what as she wants. If she wants to go to church.....I'm not going to stop her because I don't want to go....she just knows not to push it on me. I have no idea about this scientology stuff.....I was never really into religion. I was raised as a luthran and as I got older I felt too many things didn't make sense. Sort of like rationalizing that a bump in the night wasn't a big scary monster under my bed....it was the bloody cat jumping off the counter or what not. But at any rate.....it really sux that something like this could ultimately dissolve your relationship. I hope you can get things sussed out. I find it hard to believe that your relationship is based solely upon your religion or faith or whatever you choose to call it.

Scientology isn't the only religion in which the church is very embedded into a relationship. Mormon and JWs both experience the same things.

[jrhaile]

TRUTH

If people weren't fighting over religion they would be fighting over something else.

Please try and disprove that so using the Crusades and any other relgious war as reason to call it bullshit is indeed, BULLSHIT

/truth

[h0lmes]

there is no truth, that's the issue.

I sure as shit can't say with 100% and be truthful that anything in the bible is true. And you can't say, nor can anyone say that evolution is infact TRUTH because they have NOT found any proof - thus the reason it's still taught as a theory.

You're right, there is no such thing as scientific proof. However, science is far superior to any religious teaching because it is backed by loads of evidence. So even if it cannot be taken with absolute certainty, one is still justified in believing it based on the evidence and inference to the best explanation.

Some people criticize the lack of truth in science but in fact it really is what makes it so wonderful. It allows for better explanations to be formed when new evidence is discovered. This is opposed to religion which is taken to be absolute and unchanging, even in the face of contradictory evidence.

[Slangbox]

You're right, there is no such thing as scientific proof. However, science is far superior to any religious teaching because it is backed by loads of evidence. So even if it cannot be taken with absolute certainty, one is still justified in believing it based on the evidence and inference to the best explanation.

Some people criticize the lack of truth in science but in fact it really is what makes it so wonderful. It allows for better explanations to be formed when new evidence is discovered. This is opposed to religion which is taken to be absolute and unchanging, even in the face of contradictory evidence.

This is the most egregious flaw in Christianity and any other text-based religion. It's stuck in the past and is largely inflexible to positive societal changes. For instance, we no longer stone adulterers because we have found better ways to deal with them. Back in the first century, adulterers were rampant, and it was considered extremely brave and moral to punish them. If religion could evolve with the times, it would be a lot better off.

Maybe a bible Word document...

[funcrew]

Oh really? I was a Christian for the majority of my life. I did the whole church thing, read the bible, mission trips, etc. I believed it because I was young and didn't know any better. I had yet to come up with any opinions of my own and believed whatever was told to me. Then as I grew into an adult, I began forming my own opinions. It was at this time that I also started taking University Philosophy courses which in turn led me to realize how completely superior reason is to faith.

Do you know what faith is? It is belief without reason. Now tell me, do you really think it is a good thing to believe something without any reason or evidence just for the sake of it? What is the point? What is the point in believing that there is a man living in the sky who answers prayer, punishes people, lays waste to entire cities but "loves" everybody at the same time? It is just so ridiculous I cannot even comprehend why anybody would choose to believe this crap. I cannot understand why people choose to believe that the Earth is only 5000 years old and that people were created as opposed to a geologic and evolutionary scientific view of the universe based on hard evidence. It is a giant joke.

Your world view is a popular one on this forum. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of people whose lives were wrecked, self-destructive, and a menace to others that got totally straightened out when they asked God for help. Whether God was fictional or not, that faith transformed their lives. I look at those results and have a hard time dismissing all religion and sprituality as worthless and ignorant.

[jrhaile]

This is the most egregious flaw in Christianity and any other text-based religion. It's stuck in the past and is largely inflexible to positive societal changes. For instance, we no longer stone adulterers because we have found better ways to deal with them. Back in the first century, adulterers were rampant, and it was considered extremely brave and moral to punish them. If religion could evolve with the times, it would be a lot better off.

Maybe a bible Word document...

Couldn't agree more, once again. My wife calls me a non-believer because I don't care to agree with some of the shit in the Good Book. Then when I tell her I'll fucking cut her throat if she cheats, she says "you can't do that." Bullshit I can't, it says so in the good book I can

[funcrew]

To the OP: There's no way you are going to change your wife's outlook on a religion or belief system she grew up with. But you don't have to. Be the best husband you can be. Man up - You're a freaking ROCK. Treat her family with respect but stand up for yourself at the same time. Treat your wife like gold, be patient, and be willing to weather the storm. This whole situation may end up in a better result than the gloomy outcome you can see from where you are today.

[Liam]

Your world view is a popular one on this forum. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of people whose lives were wrecked, self-destructive, and a menace to others that got totally straightened out when they asked God for help. Whether God was fictional or not, that faith transformed their lives. I look at those results and have a hard time dismissing all religion and sprituality as worthless and ignorant.

I could not have stated this better myself, the thread is still pretty far off course though.

To the OP: There's no way you are going to change your wife's outlook on a religion or belief system she grew up with. But you don't have to. Be the best husband you can be. Man up - You're a freaking ROCK. Treat her family with respect but stand up for yourself at the same time. Treat your wife like gold, be patient, and be willing to weather the storm. This whole situation may end up in a better result than the gloomy outcome you can see from where you are today.

And he saves it! Kudos to you.

[EricT]

Couldn't agree more, once again. My wife calls me a non-believer because I don't care to agree with some of the shit in the Good Book. Then when I tell her I'll fucking cut her throat if she cheats, she says "you can't do that." Bullshit I can't, it says so in the good book I can

HAHAHAHAHA!

[joshh]

Thanks all for the help!


The problem here is that Scientology costs a fuck load of money. I could care less if she believed in whatever religion she wants, but not one that requires you to pay upwards of $500,000.00 to get to the top of their "bridge to total freedom".
That number is not a joke.

I didn't ask her to disown all her friends/family and run away with me. I'm just wanting her to view the information and make her own choices based on facts. Not the lies from Scientology.

[jrhaile]

You're fighting a losing battle dude. I'm sorry to say it, but every religion lies in one way or another and getting her to believe that isn't going to happen especially since her family is so involved with the church from the sounds of it.

You WILL lose this battle and she had already put that out there. So now the question is WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? The ball is in your court.

[BigD]

The point in believing in something like Christianity is to give a person hope and a purpose.

That is certainly the intent - also to force immoral people to behave. The problem is that they are rules set in belief. Beliefs are not only highly personal but also baseless. This is a thermofuckingnuclear combination with the typical human being - who is incapable of having complete security with his ideas. When beliefs are confronted, there is no way to win the argument itself so the only possible recourse is an ad hominem attack. If you want an example just search jrhaile within this thread.

Or more importantly, read the story from the OP, because that is the greatest danger of beliefs. As long as there are evil men, religion will always be nothing more than the most trivial avenue of manipulation for them to benefit from.

Religion is like Anakin fucking Skywalker. It was supposed to bring peace and balance to humanity but instead it brings fear, hate and suffering. If we outlawed religion, most of the biggest problems of mankind would be gone naturally.

[jrhaile]

That is certainly the intent - also to force immoral people to behave. The problem is that they are rules set in belief. Beliefs are not only highly personal but also baseless. This is a thermofuckingnuclear combination with the typical human being - who is incapable of having complete security with his ideas. When beliefs are confronted, there is no way to win the argument itself so the only possible recourse is an ad hominem attack. If you want an example just search jrhaile within this thread.

Or more importantly, read the story from the OP, because that is the greatest danger of beliefs. As long as there are evil men, religion will always be nothing more than the most trivial avenue of manipulation for them to benefit from.

Religion is like Anakin fucking Skywalker. It was supposed to bring peace and balance to humanity but instead it brings fear, hate and suffering. If we outlawed religion, most of the biggest problems of mankind would be gone naturally.

He started it :hitler:

[BigD]

However, science is far superior to any religious teaching because it is backed by loads of evidence.

I think science is superior to religion because it is not a system of beliefs but theories. Theories can be and are changed. The only thing that changes in religion is people are randomly booted into and out of sainthood.