Fundemental difference between Liberals and Conservatives

[KenC]

Yeah that is pretty hilarious :D :D

My strongest theory is a lack of understanding in human nature, which leads to a high degree of naivety. Second, liberals tend to be much more emotional and base their thoughts and actions on feelings rather than logic. Of course, these are just general observations based on my experiences.

Can I read your thesis on human nature when I get home from work today? ;)

PS Let's go mob you cabby on the new suspension tonight :)

[iamsam]

I think the fundamental difference is fairly simple.

Liberals tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of society as whole.

Conservatives tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of the individual.

this i think is one of the better points made. This does make sense. with a few exceptions of course. ;)

[iamsam]

err at birth. i think the law is pretty clear on it. on this particular issue i agree my religious views (or lack thereof) probably influence my viewpoint. however, i don't think your blanket theory holds water as has been mentioned by a few self professed conservatives even.

whoa, whoa, its not a blanket theory my friend! i know it does not apply to everyone! said so myself! Its only one of the notable correlations i have seen. That's all.

See if life begins at birth, then what happens when a baby is C-sectioned? is the baby not alive yet until the original due date? What exactly goes on when the baby is born that gives the baby something it didn't have a minute before it was born?

[CorvallisBMW]

eat an organic dick

^^ Blunts 3rd or 4th alter-ego

I think the fundamental difference is fairly simple.

Liberals tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of society as whole.

Conservatives tend to put more emphasis and importance on the health and wellbeing of the individual.

Neither is right or wrong, just a difference in what you think is more important.

I believe that for most of human history conservatism has been the way to go. Within an agrarian society it makes no sense to think of society as a whole. Each person has their own land, grows their own food, builds their own house, makes their own clothes, defends their own property, etc. Your life involved you, your family, and no one else.

But in a modern society with cities, communities and a move away from rural, agrarian environments, the self-sustaining human being is no more. We all rely on someone else to survive, to provide us with food, clothes, products, etc. We are no longer solitary beings, we are increasingly part of a larger community. In the modern age I think conservatism has less relevance than it used to. It's less about 'Me Myself and I' and more about 'Me, my community and my society'. Liberalism will ultimately become the 'norm', just as conservatism used to be. One must only look at modern societies all over the world to observe this trend.

There are still plenty of places in the USA and throughout the world that maintain an agrarian society (such as the Midwest) and it works great for them. Conservatism in those areas makes a lot of sense, and one need only look at the last several presidential election maps to see that rural states vote conservative. On the other hand, most people in cities have no need for this kind of self-interest and are more concerned about the greater good, because they know that if their neighbors are in trouble it's bound to spill over to them.

This is why states with large urban populations tend to vote liberal, and states with large rural populations vote conservative.

Neither is better or worse, they are just different, and each fits it's own demographic. Conservatism isn't about being selfish, it's about being self-sufficient. And Liberalism isn't about entitlement, it's about improving society as a whole.

[iamsam]

hot karl marx: wtf??? not sure if you are serious or not, but it brought a chuckle anyway.

h0lmes: aboot the gun control bit: the fact that modern guns did not exist in 1776 is irrelevant. The purpose of the legislation in 1776 to keep and bear arms was to allow the citizens of America to defend themselves against their own government if need be, from outside attack, and from each other. The fact that technology has progressed since then does not nullify the 2nd amendment, since the 2nd amendment was not made to accommodate the "killing capability" of the weapons of 1776, if you know what i mean.

[kishg]

I tihnk some liberals are more stuck up than republicans.

They are some self righteous, birkenstock dike clog wearing, stink bait, stoner hippies, volvo/hybrid drivin lowlifes, takin from the rich, givin to the poor, socialist, national healthcare toting freaks. Id like to see this obama care crap go down the shitter, along with all the other failboat policies.

eat an organic dick

troll.

[kishg]

that's exactly where we differ! and because of that, i have a conservative view on abortion and you a liberal view, which pretty much supports my point that religious beliefs can create such two differing views in two people.

just curious, i always have wanted to know, if life doesn't begin at conception, when does it begin then?

err at birth. i think the law is pretty clear on it. on this particular issue i agree my religious views (or lack thereof) probably influence my viewpoint. however, i don't think your blanket theory holds water as has been mentioned by a few self professed conservatives even.

- abortion: Abortion is not a good thing but it is necessary under certain circumstances such as rape, danger to the mother, severe health problems with the child, etc.
- gay marriage : Why not? The only good argument against gay marriage is that gay couples cannot produce children but this is not a good enough reason because not all heterosexual couples have children yet they still get the benefits of marriage. Also, there are tons of children in orphanages that need homes.
- death penalty : I agree with the underlying principles of the death penalty, that is if you murder someone you should be put to death. I do not, however, have complete faith in our justice system to rightly try people for crimes. I would rather a guilty man go free than an innocent man be put to death.
- gun control : The right to own guns is in the constitution and should be protected however automatic weapons, assault rifles, submachine guns, etc. did not exist in 1776 and restrictions need to be much tighter on these weapons.
- religion: People should be free to believe what they want to believe but keep it out of politics and government.
- income bracket : lowest
- homeowner : no
- in favor of burning gasoline : For the time being but fossil fuels are a finite resource and a more efficient and cleaner alternative needs to be found asap.
- do i believe in global warming : Global warming is very real however I remain skeptical on whether it is human made or not.
- economics : I favor a mixed system of social programs and capitalist innovation. Governments are often times the biggest customers, just look at the military.
- wars in iraq/afghanistan : I support efforts in Afghanistan and other places to prevent terrorists from killing innocent people. Iraq was completely unnecessary.
- universal healthcare : Yes. Everybody needs insurance, period. I think a universal healthcare system could be operated much like the military where the innovation comes from the private sector and the government buys all the worthwhile technology and everybody benefits rather than a select few.
- immigration : We need to make efforts to stop the flow of illegals but once they are here the best course of action is to get them to start paying taxes for the roads, schools, health care, etc. that they are going to use regardless.

[hot karl marx]

I tihnk some liberals are more stuck up than republicans.

They are some self righteous, birkenstock dike clog wearing, stink bait, stoner hippies, volvo/hybrid drivin lowlifes, takin from the rich, givin to the poor, socialist, national healthcare toting freaks. Id like to see this obama care crap go down the shitter, along with all the other failboat policies.

eat an organic dick

[iamsam]

that's where we differ. i don't believe very late term abortions are prudent but life (and the legal protection that comes with it) doesn't begin at conception as I see it. no point debating it further, neither of us are likely to change our views on it.

that's exactly where we differ! and because of that, i have a conservative view on abortion and you a liberal view, which pretty much supports my point that religious beliefs can create such two differing views in two people.

just curious, i always have wanted to know, if life doesn't begin at conception, when does it begin then?

[kishg]

t

Yes, woman should have the right to their own bodies, but an unborn child is a separate entity, inside the woman's body, it has a separate soul. (if you are religious).

that's where we differ. i don't believe very late term abortions are prudent but life (and the legal protection that comes with it) doesn't begin at conception as I see it. no point debating it further, neither of us are likely to change our views on it.

[TexasTerp]

I'm 24 and a conservative Catholic. I don't like to call myself a Republican or a Libertarian.

- abortion: pro-life 100%, I have reserved decisions about rape victims but that's it.

- gay marriage : As I'm an Opera Singer about half of my colleagues are gay and I live with three gay guys. I've been in this conversation more times than I can count. As far as the actual marriage aspect I just don't like using the name "marriage" for me it doesn't work, I've had countless gay friends of mine say that if an alternative with the same benefits and laws was created they wouldn't want it if it's not called "marriage", they only want it to be called marriage because it forces their position upon the majority and forces change/"acceptance". I highly disagree with this, I say live your life how you want, even though I may disagree with it, but don't intrude upon mine. You should have all the same rights, economically if they adopt they should get the same tax breaks etc. But don't go fucking around with my life because you don't like my beliefs.

- death penalty : Absolutely NOT

- gun control : I own 5 rifles and shotguns, I'm perfectly happy with registration and background checks, I worked on a farm in Texas in high school during the summer. One night my buddies and I were at walmart and watched a clearly either drunk or mentally disabled man and his (i assume) sober/normal son attempt to buy a shotgun. The man clearly was in no state of mind to handle a weapon regardless of situation, he couldn't even fill out the form. The lady behind the counter was very nice and let him go through the motions, she even made a fake call for a background check and told him he would need to come back in 5 days because the government needed to do an "extended background check". We talked to her afterwards and she obvisouly wasn't going to sell him the gun and I applaud her for her common sense good decision. I believe everyone should be able to own a gun as long as you prove to be in a stable state of mind to handle one, and everyone should have to go through a gun safety course the first time you buy a gun.

- religion: I'm Catholic, this country was founded by people who left England because they were unable to practice their beliefs. Everyone has the absolute right to believe and practice their own beliefs. I am also a major proponent of understanding your heritage as a country, for those who strive to remove references to God in our government I suggest you go back and truly study the lives of those like George Washington and Samuel Adams, maybe then you'll realize you are farther from the beliefs of our Fathers than you ever thought you were. I in no way impose my religion upon anyone else.

- income bracket : Parents are upper middle class, I'm barely over the poverty line atm.

- homeowner : no

- in favor of burning gasoline :yes, but highly support the cause for hydrogen based vehicles.

- do i believe in global warming : yes, but I don not believe it is man made, this does not mean I think we aren't screwing up the environment. I think that man has destroyed a lot of the world's most important habitats, has polluted the air and I'm all for working hard to clean up the world. It still doesn't change the fact that we're at the end of a 12,000 year warming period and the billions of years old earth goes on working the same way it has been since long before we came about.

- economics : fiscal conservative 100%, die hard capitalist!

- wars in iraq/afghanistan : Having lost 2 friends, 6 over there now another shipping out in a couple weeks for his 4th term, I may disagree with how they were run but I whole heartedly agree them after talking to my friends. Of course I support the troops 100%. Oh an btw, in case anyone was wondering my friends cover every base, Marines, Army Rangers, Air Force and Navy. 2 of them were there for the first wave on Baghdad and 1 was there for the first wave in Afghanistan.

- universal healthcare : I want everyone to have health care, insurance is a completely different situation and it is NOT a right. I'm all for reform but I have read all 1018 pages of the first bill and am reading the 850 pages of the discussion draft. This Healthcare bill will be the absolute most detrimental bill ever in the history of the US. I will lose my private health insurance that I pay for as a self employed individual, my grandfather with dementia will lose his medicare and he spends his entire time caring for my grandmother who's been battling cancer for 5 years and she'll no longer receive the treatment she chooses. I am Absolutely AGAINST UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE and a SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM.

- immigration : Having worked with many illegal immigrants, and hired them on a daily basis to work on the farm, giving them citizenship won't change a thing, more will come and it will just create an even higher strain on the economy. We did it in the 80's and that's exactly what happened then. I'm all for better control of our borders, I think it's impractical to try and export 11 million people back to Mexico. We need to do everything we can to stop the influx of people. Once we do that, then we can focus on the issues of education, taxes, housing etc. Stop the bleeding first then treat the infection.

[iamsam]

Ken: Yes, alot of my social views stem from my religious views, so in that way i am in your definition the religious right.

Some of my political views however i don't think are much related or affected by my religious views. Many things religion doesn't enter into. For example, my view that gun control = bad, man-made global warming is hype, etc.

That census poll you quoted is good evidence against the idea that religious beliefs greatly affect political standing, and that point you made about a person's environment affecting his world view is a valid one, and makes sense. (that is the kind of input i am looking for).

[KenC]

I just want to clarify that when i say belief in God i do not mean in any way the "Religious Right". The Religious Right is something i am not a part of (i know, yes, i am religious, and yes, i am on the Right), and do not want to necessarily be associated with.

What i mean is the fundamental difference in the belief that there is an afterlife greater than this one or whether this is all we have and when we die we cease to be.

Although you may not be one of the extreme crazies, if your conservative social views stem from your religious views, then you're a member of the religious right.


Regarding your last reply to me:

glad to give you a laugh! in my experience, it has been the most prominent difference. Not saying its true all around, that is why i started this thread. This is so because i have just failed to see any other larger differences, because there are Liberals and Conservatives that are both rich and poor, rural and urban, all different types of backgrounds, etc.

So, if you were laughing so hysterically, tell me something about why you think they way you do, enlighten me. What do you think the major difference is?

I think your religion dictates a lot of your social views, but social views are only a portion of what is traditionally defined as "liberal" or "conservative." (Terms, which I believe only wholely represent a minute portion of the country).

According to a 2008 census poll (~170,000 people), nearly 95% of the country considers themselves religious and/or spiritual. Last I checked, 95% of the country doesn't affiliate themselves with conservatism.

I think the environment in which one is raised has the greatest impact on their overall psyche and world-view, and therefore their political idiology. That is, for the most part, you conform to your social surroundings.

I'm not personally religious, and believe in no God at all. However, aside from some of their 'crazy' (my own adjective) views on family planning, churches are some of the greatest donors of social welfare and do a lot of good for our communities. They run some of the largest homeless shelters in Portland, and donate mass amounts of food and monetary assistance to low/fixed-income seniors.

[iamsam]

So, I guess most would call me a conservative. I break your mold there since religion is not important to me (which is not uncommon at all. The majority of conversatives that I know are not religious). I disagree with a lot that the religious right puts out. I don't believe in legislating morality. There is a difference between right and wrong and it is not relative. However, beyond clear cut issues, morality is not something that can or should be governed. It is a social thing and society must set the standards, not the government.

I think most would find that the difference between liberal and conservative is very small on many issues. These issues just get blown out of proportion for the sake of ratings and for the sake of argument.

I just want to clarify that when i say belief in God i do not mean in any way the "Religious Right". The Religious Right is something i am not a part of (i know, yes, i am religious, and yes, i am on the Right), and do not want to necessarily be associated with.

What i mean is the fundamental difference in the belief that there is an afterlife greater than this one or whether this is all we have and when we die we cease to be.