Anyone know of a website to see

[bwanac]

Don't finance through a dealership... isn't that where the money is made?

[ACMF74]

buying a car is soo stressful

One dealer told me I had to pay up for Bluetooth and the other told me it was included as a standard option..WTF

[quickervicar]

I buy used crap & fix it, mainly because I want to avoid this game. My sister was looking at an A4 Quattro a few years ago. We walked into the dealership being as open and honest as people can be. The entire time the salesman kept using the line "What kind of monthly payment are you willing to make?" My sister would reply "That doesn't matter, I need to know your lowest price for the car." He would not do it. In a whole hour of talking he never would offer her an actual price. We walked. Stopped in at the Mini dealership. Drove a car, spec'd one just like she wanted. They gave her a price & she gave a reasonable offer. They accepted (on a car that was in super-high demand). She's still happy.

Dealers need to make money to survive & to continue to provide service after the sale. A little profit is an expected part of the deal. A game is not.

[myinfernalbmw]

buying a car is soo stressful

One dealer told me I had to pay up for Bluetooth and the other told me it was included as a standard option..WTF

Probably different option packages. What are you looking to buy?

[ACMF74]

Probably different option packages. What are you looking to buy?

the blue tooth is already in the BASE model.

so it doesn't matter which package i picked...scummy sales guys

[jddbmw6913]

use edmunds.com they have the invoice pricing as well as up-to-date incentives. not just rebate money but also dealer "marketing" money. typical dealer hold-back is around 3% so even if you buy a car at invoice minus the rebates the dealer is still going to make some money. the salesman might not but the dealership will. if your salesman is worth his salt he's going to try and put you in a used car because that's where he can make the most money. on a new car even if he sells it at msrp minus the rebates he still is only making commission on about $1000. if he switches you to a used car he can mark it up as high as he wants and can get paid on a $4000 gross profit. I have over 10 years experience in the car business in case anyone decides to tell me i don't know what i'm talking about.

[lylefk]

^ good info there...

As far as financing through the dealership...it really depends on the dealership, IIRC. Banks will pay the dealer if they land a loan at a higher % rate than the customer actually qualifies for. If you are going through Ford or GM or BMW or whatever you're fine. Typically that happens most often on 'special finance' situations, ie. bad credit.

Used cars really are where you need to be careful...he is absolutely correct in that the money is to be made here...I usually sold between 12-14 cars a month, with 80% of them being used. We used to buy Explorers and Expeditions waaaaaay back of KBB...we'd make $8000 profit or more on them pretty regularly...even the ones in the ad had $3500 profit in it, of which I'd get 28%.

Anyway, there are lots of dealership folks here on the site...I've been out of it for a while.

FWIW, when I bought my new bmw X3 back in 2005, I paid $1200 over invoice. I was in a small town and had a really fucked up trade in. I was comfortable with that deal, as were they. Now you go down to LA or somewhere, you can get much closer to invoice on a luxury vehicle, esp with todays market.

[killa325i]

ok, all you guys saying paying MSRP or close to it is ridiculus....do your dealerships have a second sticker? all of the stores (4) i've worked at, and all the dealerships i've been too, have had additional dealer mark up of $2500-3000 depending on the model. full size trucks, mid size cars, and suvs are $3000, entry level cars and small trucks are $2500.

so what i'm saying is, if the dealer is going to markup their vehicles up over MSRP, then paying MSRP (3-6% profit) is fair. get up into $40,000+ vehicles, there is considerably more profit, closer to 9-11%. in that case, i dont "recomend" you pay MSRP.

i'm no shyster, i have no polyester suit etc etc. i'm a regular person like most of you, just trying to make some $$$ and support my family and way of life.

remember little boys and girls, profit is not a bad word...its the american way;)

[lylefk]

Dude, dealerships that mark up over MSRP are shady. And just because they do that doesn't mean they have less profit in their vehicles, it just means they are greedier. And marking it way up doesn't suddenly make it 'fair' to pay FULL PRICE.

[jddbmw6913]

There is NEVER a time when it is OK to ask for more than MSRP. I hate to say it again but as a salesman you need to stop worrying about making money on new cars and focus on selling used. Selling new cars will never make you a lot of money.

[killa325i]

Dude, dealerships that mark up over MSRP are shady. And just because they do that doesn't mean they have less profit in their vehicles, it just means they are greedier. And marking it way up doesn't suddenly make it 'fair' to pay FULL PRICE.

you sir are wrong. dealerships mark vehicles up over MSRP to help many ppl trade out of their current vehicle. the average car loan today is 72mos, the average trade cycle is 36-48mos. so 9 of 10 ppl that come in still owe money on their vehicle. its against the law to sell a new vehicle for more than its stickered for, so if you owe more than your car is worth (most ppl fall into this catagory), you as a consumer have to put more money down to in order for a lender to approve the loan. now, if you owe $3000 more than your trade is worth, the dealer can now show the lender "equity" in yor trade. i show you an inflated value for your trade, against my inflated price ie "dealer mark up". the dollar amount doesnt change, its just how it appears on paper.

as far as switching to used...good luck with that for the next few weeks. with the federal gov giving you between $3500-4500 for your shitbox sight unseen on a new vehicle.

normal course of business....i sell almost exclusively used cars. but you gotta sell what ppl are buying, and right now thats new cars.

and jddbmw6913, ive been doing this about 7yrs so i'm not exactly a green pea. and ppl that want to grind on a car that has $800-1100 profit....you're a mooch imo.

[metalix1021]

by the way...how much do you think Costco, Best Buy etc. mark up their products? 10%? 20%? is that unfair? are they price gouging? i'll do the math for you 10-20% on $30k is $3000-6000. so doing easy math.....looks like about 3-6% profit on a car.

You know nothing regarding retail product margin. At a retail store, like Best Buy, has a large range of margin percentage depending on the product. For example, if they make 12% on a laptop, they high-five. If they make 12% on a TV, it's not very good. So don't try to compare cars sales to retail big box sales when the products in store have such a wide variance.

Also, you don't spend $30k on a TV, so each % that you pay above cost is a higher dollar amount comparatively, so people are going to be more concerned about the bigger dollar amount.

[killa325i]

You know nothing regarding retail product margin. At a retail store, like Best Buy, has a large range of margin percentage depending on the product. For example, if they make 12% on a laptop, they high-five. If they make 12% on a TV, it's not very good. So don't try to compare cars sales to retail big box sales when the products in store have such a wide variance.

Also, you don't spend $30k on a TV, so each % that you pay above cost is a higher dollar amount comparatively, so people are going to be more concerned about the bigger dollar amount.

lol then stop trying to buy cars you cant afford. i'm done in this thread, i understand that 90% of the members on here are not in the demographic to buy a late model used or new vehicles, so i dont expect most to understand. but i love e30's;)

[jddbmw6913]

inflating the price to cover negative equity is completely different than charging more than MSRP for a car.

as for "grinding" on an $800 profit, it's my job as a consumer to get the best price i can and it's your job as a salesman to hold as much profit for the dealership as you can. but if you seriously think that I'm going to pay sticker for any ford product, whether it's a $15k focus or a $55k truck, then you are seriously mistaken. if you don't like being haggled with over $800 then your in the wrong line of work. I for one have haggled with McDonald's over the price of a 10 cent water, so you can be damn sure I'm going to haggle with you over $800.

[jddbmw6913]

lol then stop trying to buy cars you cant afford. i'm done in this thread, i understand that 90% of the members on here are not in the demographic to buy a late model used or new vehicles, so i dont expect most to understand. but i love e30's;)

your a douche