$ for C is dead now we have $ for electrical applanices

[2002maniac]

Perfect I am buying all new stainless kitchen appliances soon anyhow, thanks Obama!!

you're welcome you greedy bastard. :)

[Farbin Kaiber]

I traded in two fridges before I moved out of state. Southern California Edison was giving $50-75 each. But it was a check in the mail, as long as they worked, and were running cold when they came to pick em up.

[TexasTerp]

I love how the government is giving incentives for everything EXCEPT Jobs!!

In response to Massive's post, although the intention and concept of programs like Clunkers and refrigerators etc etc, are very well meaning and I'm sure one or two million people will end up getting new, energy efficient appliances, but it will only be helpful to the consumer, on a national and environmental level it will be insignificant.

The good: The consumer gets new stuff, saves a few dollars on energy bills, uses less energy.

The bad: on a national level even if 5 million people buy new refrigerators, that's only 1.3% of the US population, you would then estimate that to be 4% of households in the US. 10% of total energy usage comes from households so the overall effect on the environment is negligible. It's like making a $25 payment on a $1000 credit card bill and saying you paid off a significant percentage.

Concerning the economy, the local level may see a slight rise in revenue but there is no way to gaurantee that people will choose a specific brand. It's only certain brands that need the help to rebound which would help the national economy. Since the government can't technically force people to buy a specific brand you end up in a situation like what happened with Cash for Clunkers, we spent billions to indirectly help GM and other car companies that took government bailout money. Who got the vast majority of the consumer funds? Ford and Toyota, two companies that did NOT take the bailout.

[blunttech]

So eloquent! Where did you learn English? Mexico? Or TV?
This lends an amazing amount of credence to whatever cause
you are arguing against, as well as making you sound like
an uneducated fool. You must be one of the elite, making
over $250k/year, and, as such, do not want to allocate any
of your hard "earned" money to public infrastructure.
This begs the question: What happened to Ask not
what your Country can do for you, but rather, what
you can do for your Country? No wonder Wall Street
was allowed to rape and pillage our country while you
God-forsaken morons stood by and watched.
Thank you for your service to America.

this here is the epitome of stupidity. you havent a clue who pays the majority of the tax burden in the united states. check your facts before you sound any dumber than you already do

[M-technik-3]

Who makes those General Electric appliances? American workers maybe? So, when an appliance is sold, it creates jobs. Benefit #1. Would you rather support unemployed workers by givng them a bi-weekly check for seating on their unproductive behind?

What about that old fridge of yours that keeps on pumping freon endlessly? Isn't a new one more efficient? Requiring less energy, and therefore making the US less power dependent? Less pollution too. Benefits #2 and #3.

So what is there not to understand? Unless it is the usual partisan mumbling...

Why should I have to front the money in taxes. It's called save up for the darn thing. Enough with the welfare checks.

[blunttech]

Why should I have to front the money in taxes. It's called save up for the darn thing. Enough with the welfare checks.

hallelujah. these incentives are temporary false boosts and when they end the jobs end.
c4c is a fucking joke

[Massive Lee]

hallelujah. these incentives are temporary false boosts and when they end the jobs end.
c4c is a fucking joke

Not necessarely. There's a cascade effect to money circulation. Much more dynamic that money kept at the bank. You know that.

C4C produces new goods. People work, get paid, spend the money, pay taxes. Money spent creates more job for workers who spend more money, and pay more taxes. I am not an economist, but I would be curious to see how much tax is brought back into the government's piggy bank as it collects taxes everytime money is spent in this cascade, and how much welfare/unemployement is being saved by having workers on duty. Big guys at the top of the chain food won't make much money if the small guys at the bottom won't buy...

C4C is an attempt at jump starting a stalled economy. It will try to crank it so that it (hopefully) runs by itself. And I don't think that staring at that dead engine, doing nothing, will do much.

[M-technik-3]

Better gives some incentives to the tweens the make up a good healthy bit of our economy.

It's just moving inventory at the moment.

[wildstoats]

Not necessarely. There's a cascade effect to money circulation. Much more dynamic that money kept at the bank. You know that.

C4C produces new goods. People work, get paid, spend the money, pay taxes. Money spent creates more job for workers who spend more money, and pay more taxes. I am not an economist, but I would be curious to see how much tax is brought back into the government's piggy bank as it collects taxes everytime money is spent this cascade, and much welfare/unemployement is being saved.

Guys at the top of the chain food won't make much money if the small guys at the bottom don't buy...

The problem with plans like C4C is that they are essentially a band-aid on a shotgun wound. While they do provide a short term bump that I'm sure all the politicians will be patting themselves on the back over it completely fails to address the reason the plan was needed in the first place. C4C creates no jobs and neither does the Reinvestment Act. Sure they keep some people employed but when the money runs out (and it will eventually) those jobs will be lost. With the U6 over 16%, assuming you can even trust the government's numbers, I think there needs to be more discussion about long term objectives for putting people back to work. It seems the current administration's approach is to just keep blowing money on stimulus until the economy magically picks back up. Which is all fine and good if the economy picks back up soon but if it doesn't pick back up before they run out of (our) money it is game over. I personally don't think things will ever quite go back to the way they were, at least not in the next 15-20 years. The U.S. consumer that makes up so much of our GDP just isn't spending because they have too much debt and no more available credit.

Not to mention less and less people are actually spending money. I give you the Personal Savings Rate statistics:

[M-technik-3]

What till China comes asking for their marker.

[Aptyp]

Who makes those General Electric appliances? American workers maybe? So, when an appliance is sold, it creates jobs. Benefit #1. Would you rather support unemployed workers by givng them a bi-weekly check for seating on their unproductive behind?

What about that old fridge of yours that keeps on pumping freon endlessly? Isn't a new one more efficient? Requiring less energy, and therefore making the US less power dependent? Less pollution too. Benefits #2 and #3.

So what is there not to understand? Unless it is the usual partisan mumbling...

Those appliances may be assembled in US by 10 monkeys with tools, but there's no way in hell anything inside of those machines is made in US.

[wildstoats]

What till China comes asking for their marker.

Wat?

[Vedubin01]

Wat?

When China calls their loans in!

[wildstoats]

When China calls their loans in!

Thanks for the translation. That won't be happening any time soon though.

[Vedubin01]

Thanks for the translation. That won't be happening any time soon though.

Dont be so naive, when the dollar falls as the world standard, China will be left holding nothing but worthless paper. Its a good way to get one's self into a war.

Or what happens when China does not want to purchase any more of our growing debt?

Enjoy this!

http://usdebtclock.org/