Obamacare is passed.....let the outrage

[z31maniac]

And 3% of taxpayers in this country control 45% of the wealth. What's your point? Do you think that an extra few hundred in taxes for people that make $150,000 + per year is going to break the bank? How's this for statistics? There are 50,000 people in this country who are worth between $50 million and $250 million. There are 35-45 million people in this country who don't have health insurance. Many of the people who are uninsured are children. Many others are hard-working people who used to have health insurance, but are now unemployed due to the recession. With respect to children, you can't really expect a child to pay for his own health insurance, can you? When it comes to recently unemployed people, they often have to make a choice between feeding their family or buying health insurance. Is that really a choice that a hard-working American should have to make? Public health care is NOT redistribution of wealth, it is a way of making sure that all Americans have the same access to good medical care. Not to mention, what if the government cut military spending and redirected those funds to support public health care? In other words, what if the government subsidized the public option without raising taxes? Would you still be complaining? Would you try to argue that having troops stationed in places like Germany and Japan is more important than providing healthcare to children? If off-brand countries like Switzerland and Canada can provide public health care, we should be able to as well.

Yes, we are already subsidizing the private market. And more than we should, because the people who are uninsured can only use emergency room treatment, which is astronomically more expensive than regular doctor's visits.

It's for the children, do it for the children.

There are already programs in place to take care of children whose parents don't have health insurance, my three nephews receive their medical care that way.

How you do plan to support health care without raising taxes? The Fed's can't even control their spending now. And we know for a FACT that their cost estimates will be off. When Medicare/Medicaid started they predicted the costs to the Federal Gov't in 1990 as a way to show what is was going to cost, they were off approximately 10 fold.

Canada and the Swiss have to provide health care to people living there. :p


Basically it boils down to this. For some reason you think the gov't, even though it has a proven history of failure for being efficient, maintaining costs or generally making good decisions will do better than the free market.

Open up the rules to make insurance rates more competitive (ever see how much more health insurance is for young males in NY vs KY? I believe New York states is around 6x more expensive), make prescription drugs affordable (all the same drugs [same brands even] for less north and south of our borders), put a cap on malpratice lawsuits. That would be a good start.


I'm not saying our system couldn't be better, there are many things that we could/should change, but the Fed's want control—not a level playing field.

I am saying there is no way in hell that letting the Federal Gov't handle it is going to make it any better.

[ck_taft325is]

I'd urge nearly everyone that's posted or just browsed this thread to look up some of Reagan's radio addresses concerning Socialism in the United States pre-election. He makes some points that we haven't covered.

And to classify anyone that's against this bill as "upper middle class that don't want to pay their taxes" is the most fucking inflamatory statement I've heard yet. Who the fuck do you think you are? You must make more than $75,000 a year and LOVE having your earned money taken away at an alarming rate? Here then, I'll be a good "lower" class person that needs a hand out and you can send me 40% of all your earnings for the next year to 98360. PM for the exact addy or you can use Paypal (ck_taft@hotmail.com). I'm even trying to support a new family while my THREE fields of experience are "in decline".

Live your conviction before you open the far end of your ass.

To the MD in training. I agree, for us to think substandard pay will produce substandard medical care is offensive but by the same token, nearly true. If you don't believe so, and heaven knows I hope every doctor is just like you, wait until they tell you where you can live. Who you can treat due to costs on the state. When you can work and exactly how you can work. The further reaching consequences of this bill is the unsettling part. The money has been the primary focus but there's a world of bad opened up that people just haven't thought of or simply don't want too.

[pbr87]

I understand that the money to fund the healthcare has to come from somewhere. Tax the shit out corporations, they got lots of money, If they can affortd to dole out excessive bonuses they can afford to pay for the healthcare system.

Just found this post. All I can say is, wow!
Triple face-palm worthy.


Do you sincerely believe that raising corporate and business enterprise taxes in the midst of our country's most severe recession since 1929 is a good idea? I'm all in favor of public healthcare, but your solution is just absurd. You, sir, need to take an economics class or two.

[pbr87]

I went ahead and removed the rest of your stereotypical, straw man arguments.

Upper-middle class that doesn't want to pay their taxes (btw thw way what is your definition of upper-middle class. Although that point is really worthless considering the tax burden the top 1% of wage earners take care of)? You mean the ones that already pay in 1/3 of their wages to payroll taxes before the rest are hit?

45% of the people in this country have NO INCOME TAX LIABILITY, ie, they are either given the money back in a refund or are actually refunded more than they paid in.

And 3% of taxpayers in this country control 45% of the wealth. What's your point? Do you think that an extra few hundred in taxes for people that make $150,000 + per year is going to break the bank? How's this for statistics? There are 50,000 people in this country who are worth between $50 million and $250 million. There are 35-45 million people in this country who don't have health insurance. Many of the people who are uninsured are children. Many others are hard-working people who used to have health insurance, but are now unemployed due to the recession. With respect to children, you can't really expect a child to pay for his own health insurance, can you? When it comes to recently unemployed people, they often have to make a choice between feeding their family or buying health insurance. Is that really a choice that a hard-working American should have to make? Public health care is NOT redistribution of wealth, it is a way of making sure that all Americans have the same access to good medical care. Not to mention, what if the government cut military spending and redirected those funds to support public health care? In other words, what if the government subsidized the public option without raising taxes? Would you still be complaining? Would you try to argue that having troops stationed in places like Germany and Japan is more important than providing healthcare to children? If off-brand countries like Switzerland and Canada can provide public health care, we should be able to as well.

I'll let you do the research on the sham that is "preventative care" treatments that will do nothing but clog up doctor's office and raise costs.

But we are already subsidizing the poor throught the private market. When illegals/poor/etc can't pay, the hospital raises fee's to insurance and those who can pay as a way to make up the lost revenue.

There is a really fantastic article that was in The Wall Street Journal today that you need to go check out.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...440164954.html

Yes, we are already subsidizing the private market. And more than we should, because the people who are uninsured can only use emergency room treatment, which is astronomically more expensive than regular doctor's visits.

[Massive Lee]

Ah, ah. This whole thread reminds me of the Y2K bug... Remember? Trolls speculating about how the world is ending on January 1st... Let's close this thread and reopen it in 10 years, to see if it was as catastrophic as some thought...

[z31maniac]

"WellPoint found that a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee buying coverage on the individual market will see his costs rise by 178%."

@#$&*!

Yup, it's us healthy young people who will bear the burden even more so then we already do. Young people already subsidize the old/sick/terminal, now we will be made to support illegals/poor/lazy as well.

I thought Obama was going to be the great champion of the middle-class, not try to destroy it.

Yes but '45 million uninsured' will not have excellent coverage.

Numbers aren't even that high, and around 25 million are either illegals or people who could buy insurance buy choose not too.

I have opinions but im not trying to push them on other people on a stupid thread. Why dont you go smoke a fattie and wax your dads toboggan and slide it into your ass.

Good for you.

What I gather from your statement? You're too mentally handicapped to produce any type of logically defensible position on the issue for the purpose of debate. Since you lack these basic skills of logic and reasoning, your baked mind has lead you to believe that saying "You guys don't know what you're talking about," while synomously refusing to grace us with any of your knowledge is proof of your superior intellect.

[SLUCK]

I have opinions but im not trying to push them on other people on a stupid thread. Why dont you go smoke a fattie and wax your dads toboggan and slide it into your ass.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then enlighten us oh great swami of US politics and health care reform debate.

Show is the error of our ways

Deliver us all from ignorance

Show us the path to heath care salvation and eternal knowledge on the subject



Really though, dont you have a fattie to blaze and a xbox live game to be playing???? Or are you waxing your toboggan trying to make it faster than all the 12 year olds and the local sledding hill????

[SLUCK]

This thread is FAIL. R3V stop being so political, noone on here knows what they are talking about. R3V = bimmers and tits nothing else

[rwh11385]

Now you're saying that philanthropy is synonymous with taxation?

Taxes SHOULD pay for things individuals can not on their own provide, ie: fire protection, law enforcement, national defense, etc...

Taxes should NOT pay for things individuals should be providing for themselves: a healthy life, groceries, transportation, shelter, etc.

Genius. Ftw

[dinanm3atl]

"WellPoint found that a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee buying coverage on the individual market will see his costs rise by 178%."

@#$&*!

Yes but '45 million uninsured' will not have excellent coverage.

[87e30]

How so, State you reason of why I fail, instead of making a blatant claim without backing it up.

You can't actually believe what you're saying, can you? You're a moron.

[87e30]

Jesus H. Christ! Somebody call the wahmbulance!

By the way, I have personally met people who make 7 figures, and are in favor of a public healthcare option. Shit, even Bill Gates and Warren Buffet donate over 40% of their personal wealth to philanthropic causes.

Taxes pay for things that nobody wants to pay for, such as: military, police, roads.....and now public health care.

"Capitalism" is not synonomous with "greed". Just remember that.

Now you're saying that philanthropy is synonymous with taxation?

Taxes SHOULD pay for things individuals can not on their own provide, ie: fire protection, law enforcement, national defense, etc...

Taxes should NOT pay for things individuals should be providing for themselves: a healthy life, groceries, transportation, shelter, etc.

[87e30]

Well, shit.

[rwh11385]

"WellPoint found that a healthy 25-year-old in Milwaukee buying coverage on the individual market will see his costs rise by 178%."

@#$&*!